50 years ago you probably couldn't carry in most states, with discretionary carry and all that. Carry is MUCH easier today than 30 years ago I can testify. All those who think the past was so much better for RKBA than today are deluded. Will it be better or worse tomorrow, who can say?
Will we lose our right to CCW within the next 50 years?
- Thread starter JLStorm
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I can't guess one way or another. 50 years is a long time and things won't be like they are now. Nothing will be the same. Where they'll go, nobody knows. Things come and go, phases come and go, America's ways of thinking change. And I will be an old man then, tired of change and probably as crotchety and conservative as some of you. 
Robert Hairless
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Carry what? Nancy Pelosi went on record in January promising strict gun control laws before this year is out.
In the 2008 Presidential election year, lots of highly principled gun owners will vote Liberterian. They will ensure the election of a Democratic President and even greater Democratic control of both houses in the Congress. Not later than the first year of the next Presidency, the new President and Congress will carefully consider the right of all Americans to keep and bear arms.
When they stop laughing, they will follow the model of England or Australia and ban every damned gun you've ever seen, heard of, handled, or imagined, and the ammunition for them too.
Then all the highly principled gun owners who voted Libertarian will blame George W. Bush and the Republican Party for the loss of their guns, and they will be happy as clams and no less bright.
Since there will then be no gun owners, there will be no NRA--which will delight many gun owners because then they won't be bothered with those annoying solicitations for money essential to fight for their right to own firearms.
Gun Owners of America and JPFO will celebrate because the NRA no longer exists: they will proclaim victory over the NRA, cheer the demise of their avowed enemy, and start working hard for gun owners until someone tells them that there are no longer any legal gun owners in America. It will sink in after a while and both organizations will fade away.
At that point Jim Zumbo will have been vindicated and Outdoor Life will rehire him, this time as their badminton columnist. Eventually he will figure out that he is not supposed to shoot those birds and that, anyway, he can't hit them with paper clips propelled by a rubberband stretched between his thumb and forefinger.
Carolyn McCarthy, however, will continue to introduce gun control bills in the House until she dies, and her constituents will contine to vote for her, because nobody will have the heart to tell the pathetic woman and her supporters that there haven't been any guns to control for a long time.
In the 2008 Presidential election year, lots of highly principled gun owners will vote Liberterian. They will ensure the election of a Democratic President and even greater Democratic control of both houses in the Congress. Not later than the first year of the next Presidency, the new President and Congress will carefully consider the right of all Americans to keep and bear arms.
When they stop laughing, they will follow the model of England or Australia and ban every damned gun you've ever seen, heard of, handled, or imagined, and the ammunition for them too.
Then all the highly principled gun owners who voted Libertarian will blame George W. Bush and the Republican Party for the loss of their guns, and they will be happy as clams and no less bright.
Since there will then be no gun owners, there will be no NRA--which will delight many gun owners because then they won't be bothered with those annoying solicitations for money essential to fight for their right to own firearms.
Gun Owners of America and JPFO will celebrate because the NRA no longer exists: they will proclaim victory over the NRA, cheer the demise of their avowed enemy, and start working hard for gun owners until someone tells them that there are no longer any legal gun owners in America. It will sink in after a while and both organizations will fade away.
At that point Jim Zumbo will have been vindicated and Outdoor Life will rehire him, this time as their badminton columnist. Eventually he will figure out that he is not supposed to shoot those birds and that, anyway, he can't hit them with paper clips propelled by a rubberband stretched between his thumb and forefinger.
Carolyn McCarthy, however, will continue to introduce gun control bills in the House until she dies, and her constituents will contine to vote for her, because nobody will have the heart to tell the pathetic woman and her supporters that there haven't been any guns to control for a long time.
Robert Hairless
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JLStorm, even that won't work. No personally owned firearms for law enforcement officers and access to duty weapons when authorized, those weapons to be under the agency's custody and control. The anti-gun people don't vote Libertarian. They are singleminded and know what they are doing. Now is their time to do us.
To put it another way, no soap for you.
To put it another way, no soap for you.
I don't think that CCW will be banned, although attempts will be made. CCW has been implemented in many states, as well as Castle Doctrine laws, and laws forbidding states to disarms citizens during emergencies.
Even the FBI is reporting that crime is down 38% despite the millions of lawful firearms sold this year. I will try to get a link for that statistic.
Even the FBI is reporting that crime is down 38% despite the millions of lawful firearms sold this year. I will try to get a link for that statistic.
ksnecktieman
Member
I voted that we will not be able to carry. I do not think we will even be allowed to own. Consider this fact. In fifty years the first graders of today will have been voting for over thirty years, and many of us older shooters will be gone. The first graders of today are being taught, both by teachers, and peers, that even a drawing of a gun is evil.
My oldest grandchild is now six years old, and I will be surprised if she is EVER legally allowed to purchase a pistol. I think the law of this country will change that much in the next fifteen years.
I hope I am wrong.
My oldest grandchild is now six years old, and I will be surprised if she is EVER legally allowed to purchase a pistol. I think the law of this country will change that much in the next fifteen years.
I hope I am wrong.
ilcylic
Member
Robert Hairless: As a principled libertarian, I promise to vote Republican if they run a candidate who deserves to be voted for. Like, say, Ron Paul.
ZeSpectre
Member
I voted no but as far-fetched as it may sound I voted so because I honestly believe that within the next 50 years something so sci-fi is going to come around that personal arms as we know them are going to become largely irrelevant. I don't specifically know what the development (or developments) will be but I have some generalized notions and most of them have to do with nanotechnology.
There, I've made the statement, let's see what happens
There, I've made the statement, let's see what happens
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Robert Hairless is dead on. The more people who split the vote between Republican and Libertarian, the easier it will be for the Democrats to gain the Presidency.
Gun-grabbers, for how much crap we give them, are actually pretty smart. They will NOT be splitting their votes. And if we do, they will win. And all the principles that the "principled Libertarians" have will be worth exactly 0. Principles don't mean a whole lot when compared to reality. And if the Dems take the Presidency, the reality is, AWB and other anti-gun laws, WILL go through. Where will your principles be then?
Will saying "At least I voted with my principles" stop a thief in your home? Will saying "I tried to make a noble stand" turn the mugger away at night?
Gun-grabbers, for how much crap we give them, are actually pretty smart. They will NOT be splitting their votes. And if we do, they will win. And all the principles that the "principled Libertarians" have will be worth exactly 0. Principles don't mean a whole lot when compared to reality. And if the Dems take the Presidency, the reality is, AWB and other anti-gun laws, WILL go through. Where will your principles be then?
Will saying "At least I voted with my principles" stop a thief in your home? Will saying "I tried to make a noble stand" turn the mugger away at night?
romma
Member
I voted no, but who really knows? A couple of good massacres to really frighten the sheep, or extreme gun control politicians pulling the whinny over our eyes, anything is possible... We could lose it, regain it, and lose it again during that time.
I think as technology advances you might see chips in guns and bullets. Perhaps GPS and auto notification to an agency that a round has been fired by Mr or Mrs x and that bullet is located at position x. Prohibition didn't work, neither do are current drug laws. The fact is absolute control never has worked in the U.S.. I think we will see more of identification advances than control. Both bad IMO. Newborn will be inserted an ID chip at birth and your actions and whereabouts will be known by the big eye. Hell if worse comes to worse I may have to trade my guns in for Soylent Green. I guess you'd have to see the movie to understand.
Cosmoline
Member
We already did lose them, between the late 19th and early 20th century. We just got them back. If we lose them again, it's our own fault.
As an aside, I've been listening to old X-1 episodes from the 50's. The various predictions for what the future would be like almost all turned out to be wrong. So I don't put much faith in wild eyed malthusian prognostications about how we're going to be overpopulated and totally disarmed. The worst case scenario is only going to happen if we let it happen.
I also doubt firearms are going to become obsolete. Remember, we were supposed to have switched to ray guns in the 1980's.
taurusowner, as far as splitting the vote, what's the difference between a McCain or Guli in office and HC? I can't see a dime's worth. The antis win either way.
As an aside, I've been listening to old X-1 episodes from the 50's. The various predictions for what the future would be like almost all turned out to be wrong. So I don't put much faith in wild eyed malthusian prognostications about how we're going to be overpopulated and totally disarmed. The worst case scenario is only going to happen if we let it happen.
I also doubt firearms are going to become obsolete. Remember, we were supposed to have switched to ray guns in the 1980's.
taurusowner, as far as splitting the vote, what's the difference between a McCain or Guli in office and HC? I can't see a dime's worth. The antis win either way.
Robert Hairless
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ilcylic:
It's always good to meet a principled Libertarian. Ron Paul would be a great candidate and you should vote for him. If enough principled Libertarians vote for him, he can get 1% of the vote in the next Presidential election, and we can all celebrate your principles.
Did you ever hear of Herman Filster? Herman was a highly principled young man I knew many years ago. He always stood by his principles and would never be deterred by their consequences. We always admired his character.
Unfortunately one of Herman's principles was that he could fly. I remember that his mother tried to talk sense to him and so did his father. Several of his friends spent hour after hour explaining to Herman that he couldn't fly. We showed him proof that any rational person should have known already and that no sensible person could deny.
I'd bet that even some gun owners don't believe that they can jump off a two story building, flap their arms, and soar like the birds. But Herman believed he could do it. After a while I guess his mother and father, and all of Herman's friends, got tired of trying to convince Herman that he was living in a dangerous fantasy that was going to get him badly hurt. I'm embarrassed to confess that I gave up on trying to talk sense to Herman long before the others did.
At any rate, Herman Filster did stand up for his principle. He jumped off the roof, flapped his arms just like a bird, and landed hard on the concrete below. By some miracle he did not die, but he did suffer severe injuries. Undaunted, Herman managed to get back to that roof a few times more. Each time, he jumped off the roof and flapped his arms proudly, and each time he crashed hard to the ground.
I don't know exactly which of those times resulted in Herman Filster's lifelong brain damage. I do know that I was not one of the people who began to call him "Crazy Herman." That is because I am not by nature a cruel person. I haven't seen or heard of Herman Filster in many years and by now none of my childhood friends remember him as anything but "Crazy Herman," so I'm reluctant to ask if any of them know. Besides, when I used to ask about him, all anyone remembered was that he kept jumping off roofs and crashing, and wouldn't learn that he would never fly and would always be hurt.
Go vote Libertarian. Everyone should have an opportunity to fly.
It's always good to meet a principled Libertarian. Ron Paul would be a great candidate and you should vote for him. If enough principled Libertarians vote for him, he can get 1% of the vote in the next Presidential election, and we can all celebrate your principles.
Did you ever hear of Herman Filster? Herman was a highly principled young man I knew many years ago. He always stood by his principles and would never be deterred by their consequences. We always admired his character.
Unfortunately one of Herman's principles was that he could fly. I remember that his mother tried to talk sense to him and so did his father. Several of his friends spent hour after hour explaining to Herman that he couldn't fly. We showed him proof that any rational person should have known already and that no sensible person could deny.
I'd bet that even some gun owners don't believe that they can jump off a two story building, flap their arms, and soar like the birds. But Herman believed he could do it. After a while I guess his mother and father, and all of Herman's friends, got tired of trying to convince Herman that he was living in a dangerous fantasy that was going to get him badly hurt. I'm embarrassed to confess that I gave up on trying to talk sense to Herman long before the others did.
At any rate, Herman Filster did stand up for his principle. He jumped off the roof, flapped his arms just like a bird, and landed hard on the concrete below. By some miracle he did not die, but he did suffer severe injuries. Undaunted, Herman managed to get back to that roof a few times more. Each time, he jumped off the roof and flapped his arms proudly, and each time he crashed hard to the ground.
I don't know exactly which of those times resulted in Herman Filster's lifelong brain damage. I do know that I was not one of the people who began to call him "Crazy Herman." That is because I am not by nature a cruel person. I haven't seen or heard of Herman Filster in many years and by now none of my childhood friends remember him as anything but "Crazy Herman," so I'm reluctant to ask if any of them know. Besides, when I used to ask about him, all anyone remembered was that he kept jumping off roofs and crashing, and wouldn't learn that he would never fly and would always be hurt.
Go vote Libertarian. Everyone should have an opportunity to fly.
rhubarb
Member
When they stop laughing, they will follow the model of England or Australia and ban every damned gun you've ever seen, heard of, handled, or imagined, and the ammunition for them too.
Don't forget to include Canada as soon as the LIEberal government takes the throne. We are more than half way there now.
I'm sooo sad. However, I was born far enough back that it won't happen in my time. So fight on guys, I cannot help you much longer.
Cheers
Don't forget to include Canada as soon as the LIEberal government takes the throne. We are more than half way there now.
I'm sooo sad. However, I was born far enough back that it won't happen in my time. So fight on guys, I cannot help you much longer.
Cheers
Autolycus
Member
Well we all got ours? We just did not want to tell you.
Seriously everyone who is blaming the "principled" gun owners already for voting their beliefs is just
. Why dont all gun owners vote Libertarian then? Why do all gun owners have to vote Republican?Sorry that logic doesnt work. You should vote for the candidate you want to see lead the country. For me that is a Libertarian. If Ron Paul runs I will be voting for him whether he is running as a Libertarian or Republican.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Because Republicans have a chance at winning.
Valiantly going down in flames is still going down in flames.
ilcylic
Member
Robert Hairless: You seem to have missed the part where I said I'd be willing to vote REPUBLICAN (There, could you read it that time?) if they supplied a good candidate. Or, perhaps, you read my statement, and chose to simply make your point that you'll vote Republican no matter who they run.
Thus, I'm sure that if Ron Paul were the Republican candidate he'd get more than 1% of the vote, as he'd get all of the libertarians, and all the people like you, who are apparently going to blindly hit that big red R button no matter whose name appears next to it.
I'd like to point out, at this juncture, that Ron Paul has introduced legislation to the House that would repeal the Brady Bill, the "Sporting Purposes" distinction for firearms, and the Child Safety Lock act of 2005.
Anyone who truly cares about firearms should be supporting Ron Paul's bid for the Republican candidacy.
Thus, I'm sure that if Ron Paul were the Republican candidate he'd get more than 1% of the vote, as he'd get all of the libertarians, and all the people like you, who are apparently going to blindly hit that big red R button no matter whose name appears next to it.
I'd like to point out, at this juncture, that Ron Paul has introduced legislation to the House that would repeal the Brady Bill, the "Sporting Purposes" distinction for firearms, and the Child Safety Lock act of 2005.
Anyone who truly cares about firearms should be supporting Ron Paul's bid for the Republican candidacy.
C96
Member
I think Mr. Hairless has it right. Carry what ? In fifty years I doubt firearms will exist in history books let alone something a person might own.
allan
allan
Danus ex
Member
All of you can do something to craft the future you want: take a young person shooting. It's not difficult.
I keep wondering what it will take for the major parties to produce candidates with a clue--civil rights for EVERYONE are a big deal. The Democrats are scary for reasons I need not mention here. The ruling Republicans are frighteningly out of touch: the Patriot-Acting, anti-homosexual, anti-stem-cell research, anti-abortion Christian fundamentalism will bring down the elephant for good if they don't drop those losing, dying stances.
I'm 24, and if I ever ran for political office, I would prefer to run as a Republican. I favor a smaller, less intrusive government that's fiscally responsible. However, I can't abide by the current Republican anti-rights agenda (nor the Democrats' anti-rights agenda), and I don't think most of America can, either.
I keep wondering what it will take for the major parties to produce candidates with a clue--civil rights for EVERYONE are a big deal. The Democrats are scary for reasons I need not mention here. The ruling Republicans are frighteningly out of touch: the Patriot-Acting, anti-homosexual, anti-stem-cell research, anti-abortion Christian fundamentalism will bring down the elephant for good if they don't drop those losing, dying stances.
I'm 24, and if I ever ran for political office, I would prefer to run as a Republican. I favor a smaller, less intrusive government that's fiscally responsible. However, I can't abide by the current Republican anti-rights agenda (nor the Democrats' anti-rights agenda), and I don't think most of America can, either.
Cerca Trova
Member
An object lesson from Massachusetts
I voted no, and submit for your consideration the following:
There is perhaps no more anti RKBA sentiment in this country than can be found in the PRM.
Yet, suprisingly, those of us who CCW here are galvanized, further strengthening our resolve, to not usher, in our time, the first gun free state in the union. CCW in Massachusetts... we try harder, because we have to.
Hearts and minds: Teaching children history, the Constitution, and personal responsibility and the role that firearms have played in all the aforementioned, are gently shaping our future of our youth. My little man gets it, and is far better suited to deal with those who don't than I ever was at his age. I pray that God gives him the courage of his convictions.
They say that freedom was born here in Massachusetts, but it moved away... Here's hoping that for those of us who remain, that we can help it find it's way back.
I voted no, and submit for your consideration the following:
There is perhaps no more anti RKBA sentiment in this country than can be found in the PRM.
Yet, suprisingly, those of us who CCW here are galvanized, further strengthening our resolve, to not usher, in our time, the first gun free state in the union. CCW in Massachusetts... we try harder, because we have to.
Hearts and minds: Teaching children history, the Constitution, and personal responsibility and the role that firearms have played in all the aforementioned, are gently shaping our future of our youth. My little man gets it, and is far better suited to deal with those who don't than I ever was at his age. I pray that God gives him the courage of his convictions.
They say that freedom was born here in Massachusetts, but it moved away... Here's hoping that for those of us who remain, that we can help it find it's way back.
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