Win. Super Grade v. Kimber 84M v. ??

[gbw]

I'm looking to buy a nice hunting rifle/scope, .308 cal., the two that appeal most for now are the Winchester Super Grade and the Kimber 84M. Kimber seems to be a few hundred $$ more, but I'm not sure just why. The wood seems to be similar between the two.

Which of these would you prefer, and why?

Are there other good alternatives in similar price range?

I'm interested a very nice wood stocked, lightweight classic mauser type bolt sporter rifle. .308 for ease of ammunition availability, the short action, and adequate caliber for most north american hunting??

Thanks,

 

[ArtP]

Personal opinion:

The Kimber seems to be finicky with accuracy, some good shooters out of the box, but a lot of reported problems. You can say that about any rifle, but based on a small market share by kimber, the reports are excessive. I have also read more problems than usual from Kimber. I guess I'm saying, I think, buying a Kimber is a bigger gamble than necessary. They make some very lightweight models, but depending on the caliber you plan to shoot, it may not be such a good idea to be too light (perceived recoil). If you were going to spend the sort of money Kimber wants, you could look at other factory-custom guns like Cooper. I think Kimber has built such a good reputation with their 1911's, they feel they can ride that reuptation to an overpriced rifle lineup.

The model 70, in its latest control-feed configuration is a time tested machine. The supergrade is a stunner. I bought and sold a M70 in synthetic and very much liked its action. Accuracy was around 1.25 MOA - nothing to write home about but certainly acceptable for hunting. I could have gone further with load development for it, but traded it away.

 

[Moo 2 Drvr]

Just a question. Does Winchester make the Supergrade in .308 now? Last I checked, the .308 wasn't available in the Supergrade, only .270, 30.06, a couple of WSMs and some magnums. Let me know if you find out otherwise.

 

[lopezni]

Kimber, hands down. The quality of a model 70 super grade is laughable. The 70fw is nicer. I have never seen a kimber that did not shoot well and did not look great. Winchester is not in the same class as Kimber.

 

[Abel]

Its been a couple of years since I've heard of any real issues with Kimber's rifles. I'd say that the Kimber 84 is as nice a rifle to be had in its price range.

 

[d vader]

kimber vs.winchester

I own four kimber rifles,and four new model 70 winchesters made by fn in columbia south carolina.I stongly disagree with the gent,super grades are not laughable,there quality far exceeds any kimber rifle out there,feature by feature.Howcome noted writer and owner Chuck Hawks of guns and shooting on line states"we regard it as the finest model 70 production rifle ever made." what kimber rifle ever received any award,answer "none".

 

[deadeye1122]

M84 in .260 rem. not offered currently but 7mm-08 is the replacement cartrage. sweetest light rifle for deer/antelope on down. Out shoots thmy Rem 700 Tac in .308 all day long. Do not have any experience with Model 70. d vader must like something about kimber rifles he has 4. deadeye.

 

[gbw]

moo - You're correct, and thanks. No .308 in Win.SG, or more likely .300WSM although I'd prefer .308. Judging from the photos, the Winchester short action really isn't physically shorter than the long action.

As with nearly everything else, looks matter too.

Thanks for the help/suggestions so far! Going to look at the Cooper as well now.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Going to look at the Cooper as well now.

Now your thinking straight, the Cooper is worth the price, unlike the Kimber 84M and even the Winchester.

The Winchester Super Grade IS a nice looking rifle, most have shot into a quarter at 100y so the reports from customers have been.

The Kimber, while not a bad rifle, is not worth the cash they want for one.... but neither is a Super Grade for that fact. Kimber once built a good, pretty and accurate rifle, but today, some of the mainstream 'production' rifles give them a run for their money (Super Grade), at a substantially lower price.

If your going to drop over 2 grand on a simple 'bolt action' rifle, go with the Cooper. If on the other hand your more inclined to part with just one thousand clams, get the Super Grade.

 

[SpeedAKL]

The new FN-produced Model 70s are absolutely drool-worthy IMO...

 

[Float Pilot]

I played with a new Model 70 Winchester 30-06 Super Grade last night.... It was a thing of beauty and very accurate. It was almost too nice to take outside... It was like visual viagra...
The guy paid $1,100 at a store. Not bad compared to my high grade Kimber which has spent all sorts of time going back and forth to be fixed.

 

[bpl]

Why are you comparing a heavy M70 sporter rifle to an ultralight Kimber 84M? I could see maybe a M70 Featherweight vs. the extra money for an 84M, but a sporter? Two totally different rifles, IMO.

 

[Geno]

Some what a apples and oranges comparison here of M70 and M84.

Bolts:
The bolts on my M70 Super Grade, and for that matter, my M70 Stealth are as-slick-as whistles. Conversely, the bolt on my Kimber LPT is smaller diameter and seems to bind easily if it isn't kept very well lubricated. I do not like Kimber's diminutive bolt size.

Ejection:
The M70s eject spent brass as-far-as the eye can see. Seriously, be careful of the folks to your right. The Kimber M84 on the other hand barely drops the brass 2" outside of the action.

Accuracy:
The M70 Super Grade is very accurate, and the M84 LPT better be accurate for the price, and considering its medium heavy barrel. Both rifles weigh nearly the same, in spite of the Super Grade being a .30-06 Sprg, and the M84 being a .308 Win.

Bore:
The bore on both of my M70s is a slick as glass...literally! The bore on the Kimber is equally slick and clean. I don't see any difference in the bore quality between them.

Cost:
Considering that my Super Grade cost $899ish, and the Kimber LPT runs nearly $1,400.00 with a 1-year wait to get, I would opt for the Winchester. I got a super deal on the LPT, because my friend owns the firearms store where it was. He had ordered it a year earlier, and only because Kimber demands he sell a certain number of Kimber rifles too, not just pistols.

Over-all impression:
Both my Winchester M70 Super Grade, and my Kimber M84 PLT are nice rifles, and accurate enough for my demands (and I have pretty durned high standards).

Regardless of both rifles' equally-high quality, my nod goes to the M70, because of the bolt-size and function.

Geno