Winchester 1892 Design Change

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Lawren5

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Several years ago, Winchester made some changes to their Model 1892 lever action rifles. From the two pictures below, you can see the differences. Part number 534162137 was discontinued in 2010 and replaced by 534177137. From what I can see from the pictures, the later model added two rings at the end of the barrel and magazine tube, lengthened the forearm, deleted the cap covering the end of the forearm, added a large ring around the forearm, changed the butt plate and changed the front sight.

Comparing the two pictures to earlier 1892 versions, the latest model is a departure from traditional design. Does anyone know the reason why Winchester would make these changes?

winchester_534162137.jpg


winchester_534177137.jpg
 
The parent company that owns the Winchester brand is just rotating various configurations.
The guns are built in Japan & Miroku doesn't have room to turn them out in volume.
They're a part of the nostalgia series, done in relatively small numbers, and offered in different versions from year to year.

The top is a short rifle, the bottom is a carbine.
Denis
 
All presumably models that would have been available in the bygone days when Winchester was actually a company, and not just a Trademark.
 
That's not a design change but rather two different configurations. As DPris noted, the top is a short rifle, the bottom a carbine.

Rifles and short rifles have round or octagon barrels, steel forend caps, crescent or shotgun buttplates, a dovetail magazine hanger and straight or pistol grip stocks. Typically a rifle has a barrel longer than 20" and a "short rifle" has a barrel 20" or less.

Carbines have round barrels only, banded forend, barrel band magazine hanger, carbine specific butt plates and straight grips only.

Barrel length is irrelevant in differentiating between rifles and carbines, in this instance.
 
As noted, short rifle and carbine configurations.

Does anyone know the reason why Winchester would make these changes?
To sell you the other one if you already bought the other one first.

Collectors will buy one of every version they make.

rc
 
Thanks to everyone for educating me on the difference between a short rifle and a carbine, at least from a configuration standpoint. Functionally, however, they appear to serve the same purpose.
 
There were several configurations of the 92 over the years; long, short, round barrel, octagon, rifle, carbine, trapper, half-mag, full mag, crescent buttplate, carbine buttplate, different sights, and so on.

The carbine was one of the most popular, but there was never one single standard 92 configuration.
Denis
 
1897 Sears Roebuck & Co. catalog shows Marlin rifles (Models 1893, 1894, 1895) and Winchester rifles (Models 1873, 1892, 1894) with forearm end caps and dovetailed magazine hangers, and only the Marlin Model 1894 carbine with barrel bands for forearm and magazine.

However, in the 1950s most I saw were leveraction carbines with the barrel bands and only Marlin 39As and Marlin-Glenfield 30 (with 2/3 length magazine) used the end cap. The Marlin-Glenfield 30 was replaced with the 30A with bands and full-length magazine to appeal to the buying public's image of a tradition Western .30-30.

I have seen 1892s in both styles over the years. Fashions in guns change. Theoretically, the barrel band mounting stands up better to rough handling and is carbine style, but the forearm end cap and dovetailed magazine hanger style is more accurate and is rifle style.

And yeah, it seems like a ploy to appeal to NIB collectors (who hoard new-in-the-box guns) to buy the alternate style to complete their collection. Or just an intent by "Winchester" to supply examples of all traditional models.
 
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If you look around for Italian & Brazilian 92 copies you can find them in rifle & carbine configurations.
No big deal.
Some customers prefer this, some prefer that.
Same with "Winchesters", both in the old days when Winchester was a company & nowdays when it's a brand stamping.
Denis
 
Not very visible in your picture but the short rifle has a barrel lenght of 24 inch, wich makes it better for range use in cowboy shooting, because of the much longer sight radius,
Carbine is a typical hunter with 20 inch barrel
There is also the duke with big lever and 16,5 inch barrel, so you can work it one handed like john wayne :D , seriously, dont try this at home
There is just a 1892 for every taste
 
Howdy

Traditionally, there were three different configurations that Winchester rifles came in.

Rifle, Carbine, and Musket.

These configurations were not limited to the Model 1892, they started with the Model 1866.

This composite photo shows the Winchester Model 1873 in the three different configurations.

winchesterconfigurations.jpg

At the top two are rifles. The rifle featured a crescent shaped buttplate, the magazine was suspended from a hanger dovetailed into the underside of the barrel, and the fore end had a cap at the end. Rifles could be had with round or octagon barrels, or even half round and half octagon. Round barrels were actually standard, but Winchester usually supplied octagon barrels to their distributors for no extra charge. Barrels were usually available in 2" increments, although any length could be custom ordered.

Carbines had short barrels, usually around 20 inches long. Carbine barrels had a sharper taper than rifle barrels. The magazine was supported by two barrel bands, one surrounding the for end and one up near the muzzle. Front sights were sometimes welded to the front barrel band, sometimes they were dovetailed directly to the barrel. Carbine stocks had a flat running up the comb, and the buttplate was a formed piece of heavy sheet metal, with a much shallower curve than a rifle's crescent shaped buttplate.

Don't be confused by the term Musket. They were not muzzle loading smooth bores. Winchester muskets were basically overgrown carbines. The most noticeable feature of the Winchester Musket was that the fore end extended almost all the way to the muzzle. Barrels were long, often 30". Magazines were supported by three barrel bands. The butt was basically the same as a Carbine butt, with the same type of butt plate. Not many Muskets were sold in this country, but a great many were sold to foreign governments for military weapons, and many of them had bayonet mounts on them.

Not very visible in your picture but the short rifle has a barrel lenght of 24 inch, wich makes it better for range use in cowboy shooting, because of the much longer sight radius,

The most popular configuration of rifle in Cowboy shooting these days is the Uberti 1873 Short Rifle with a pistol grip and 20" barrel. Usually chambered for 357 Magnum but usually fired with 38 Specials. That is the version that you see most often in the winner's circle. The 20" barrel is very quick handling. Targets are seldom far enough away in CAS to need a 24" barrel.

The rifle at the top of this photo is my 44-40 Uberti 1873 with a 24" barrel. No longer favored by the top Cowboy shootists, they like the 20" barrels and pistol grip. The rifle at the bottom is my 44-40 Winchester Model 1892, made in 1894, also with a 24" barrel.

Uberti1873Winchester1892flt.jpg


This 38-40 Model 1873 has a 24" round barrel. It was made in 1887.

187303_zps5c6fb817.jpg



This 44-40 Model 1892 Saddle Ring Carbine was made in 1916.


92carbine.jpg
 
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The newest winchester offering, 1866 short rifle, with 24 inch barrel.
It comes from a time when real rifles were 26 to 30 inch

That is a Model 1886, not 1866. The 1866 was the first real Winchester, it fired the 44 Henry rimfire cartridge. The 1886 was developed by John Browning to take the place of the old 1876 Winchester. The 1876 toggle link action was never able to accommodate the 45-70 cartridge. Browning completely redesigned the lever gun to accept the 45-70. Later he scaled down the 1886 for 'pistol length ' cartridges like the 44-40, creating the 1892.

As far as 'real rifles' being 26 to 30 inches long, that is baloney. The current marketing people at what passes for Winchester today can call it anything they like, but as I said earlier, rifles could have barrels as short as 12 inches and as long as 36 inches. What defined a rifle made by Winchester in the 19th Century was the configuration, not the length of the barrel.
 
My definition of a short rifle does not include a 24-inch barrel. :)
I've had others, but the 24-inch Marlin .45 Colt I have doesn't strike me as particularly "short". :)
Denis
 
Nor would I. Would that be because the standard rifle length was 26" for that model? Or are the not following the historical designation?
 
Who knows what they're following? :)
For me, a short rifle is 20 inches & under.
Denis
 
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