Winchester 243...the better 6.5 Creedmore?
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Ahh read it thoroughly this time i must have skipped right over it.
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salt&battery
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I still don't get it lol. I am PC dumb
1stmarine
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Whether one thinks discussing these rounds is a clever choice or not doesn’t change the fact that a lot of people use factory ammunition.
If you pick up the typical 100gr remington, hornady, winchester or federal loads they all have pretty similar ballistics.
The popular 100gr bullets bonded,partition or sp/bt, they all provide the same sectional density and ballistics around .4 G1
If one looks into 120gr 6.5 and 7mm bullets in popular loads they still provide sectional density above .2 and G1 ~.4+ with
popular hunting bullets like nosler bt, speer and hornady spbt.
The exception in my list is the 125gr BT that falls below .2 sd and below .4G1 and since light for caliber are not that popular in 308
one most likely needs to order online.
Examples of Factory Ammo in a 22" barrel:
Load___________________MV__________G1_______@ 300 yards
243w - Winchester superX - MV ~2,800fps. .4G1 2162/1038
260r - Barnes 120gr vorTX - MV ~2,870fps .412G1 2233/1328
7mm08 - Nosler 120gr BT - MV ~2,950fps .412G1 2306/1417
308W - DT 125gr Nosler BT - MV -3,150 .366G1 2396/1596
The whole purpose is to simply show other larger bore calibers can shoot flat too and hit hard with relatively light bullets and recoil like those characteristics
we like from the 243 this w/o having to resort to "light" custom loads sold for recoil sensitive people and perhaps too light for the average hunter.
After one runs the ballistics then we need to look at impact velocities, frontal section, momentum on the target and terminal design matching bullets to
body weight and type of game (mid weight / deer in this case). This is what determines the killing power not simple energy projections on paper.
The 6mm and 6.5mm will not outperform downrange as the trajectories show for the given loads and before the speeds fall below the recommended
threshold or killing factor recommended for medium weight game. You can increase the speed by using 80gr bullets and even show similar energy levels but
the killing factor will not raise due to the lack of frontal section and lower sd and momentum (not energy, two different things).
I know there are better bullets in all the calibers but that is not the point to show flat shooting. Not sure what 100gr hunting bullet is more efficient w/o getting
into VLDs and other more modern and exclusive bullets. I know the 6mm 80gr ttsx is a nice bullet but momentum+sd falls a tad low for medium game recommendation.
Perhaps the speer 100gr hpbt is a tad better than the average hpbt like the hornday hpbt but corrected BC doens't show a lot more than the 85gr that is again too light for
medium game.
As you mentioned, with careful reloading and bullet selection all calibers can be improved but other people simply want to buy the ammo and ideally not too expensive.
I am not sure if the max pressure estimates above are useful to most folks but just in case we should add that BLC2 and specially CFE
compressed will drive a 7mm 120gr bt bullet up to 3150fps. and 308 120gr tac-tx up to 3250fps from a 22" bartlein barrel.
Will probably not be the most accurate and why ammo makers don't put out the hot loads in all categories.
Perhaps there is another reason why Winchester, Remington and Federal do not load higher pressures. They do the same wiht the 260R and 7mm-08R
that could also be offered wiht hotter loads and more long range ammo for hunting and other uses.
Maybe a detailed discussion about specific ammo, bullets, barrels and powders would be more productive and the subject for a new thread.
Discussing ballistic estimates w/o referring to specific ammo and other variables can become a rather arbitrary discussion.
You would see my name and scores ten to twenty places below his when we both shot at the Nationals. He held tighter and doped the wind better than me.
1stmarine
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I keep logs from my own and others including gunsmith/rebarrel work.
Then I simply average after removing a few exceptions.
IMO any source is good as soon as the source is trust worthy and can get as many attributes as possible.
I know other people follow the same simple methodology.
What range? What ammo?
1stmarine
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Service M118 right? I am talking about the M40A3 and M40A5. Don't know about earlier models with the hart barrel.
salt&battery
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what caliber rifles were you 2 guys shooting
M118 ammo at its best shot almost 2 MOA at 600 yards in precision test barrels, a bit over 1 MOA at 300. M118 ammo lots were made with bullets from 3 or 4 machines; not good for accuracy nor precision shooting.
I only shot 30 caliber except my first year at the Nationals for one match when M16's were first allowed, then 22. I shot a 26 caliber magnum for a couple years in local matches Tubb shot 30, 26 and 24 caliber all over as far as I know.
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1stmarine
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Bart, I am talking about the modern M118 like modern M118LR.
I am not sure all the formulations through the years but I think it is safe to say that if you take a Federal
Gold match 175gr smk is the same thing. Black hills too.
Rifles are zeroed at 100 yard with 3-5 shot 1/2moa groups. 25" Schneider barrel.
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