Winchester 70 Custom 1/4 Rib

[farscott]

I have been looking for a lightweight (relatively speaking) bolt-action rifle with iron sights chambered in a decent cartridge (one that has lots of reloading data as well as lots of factory loads in lots of places) that I can actually use without dumping even more money into it for a decent set of iron sights, swivel studs, and stock mods to be able to use the iron sights. My preference is for nice walnut and blued steel for this rifle; I have other rifles for foul weather and really hard use.

This rifle is for short-range (always less than 150 yards and maybe as short as 40 yards) walkaround hunting in dense brush and may also see time as a truck gun. While I have a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum that sees some use in this role, I want a bolt action for the mechanical advantage in feeding provided by the rotary bolt and the ability to chamber a more powerful cartridge. Caliber is not a real issue; anything from 7X57 to .270 Winchester to .308 Winchester to .30-06 to .280 Remington is acceptable. I do want to stay away from any of the new short-action magnums due to the relative lack of reloading data and difficulty in finding factory ammo. I also do not want to get into .300 Winchester Magnum or higher recoil territory.

In the CDNN catalog on their website, they show a Model 70 chamberered in 7mm Remington Magnum with a twenty-two inch barrel, a Monte Carlo stock, Schnabel forend, quarter rib with rear sight, front sight with fiber optic insert, and swivel studs. The ad mentions something about Belgian proofs and being imported. It looks to be a beautiful rifle and looks to be something that would fit my wants. My dealer has quoted me a price of $829 (yes, I know that CDNN has it listed for $700, but I want my local dealer to make a profit), and that price is doable. So here are my questions:

1) My only experience with a rear sight rib is on a Ruger 77. Any comments on Winchester's implementation of the rib? The picture in the ad does not really show any detail.

2) It appears this rifle was built for the European market. Was this rifle built in Belgium? If so, by whom? FN? What is the reference to "Custom"? Which custom shop did the work?

3) If I remember correctly, European rifles tend to be set-up for relatively short shots at running game in low light? Is this correct? If so, would the sights on this Model 70 be set for speed rather than precision and long-range accuracy?

4) It appears the 7mm Remington Magnum might be at the upper end of my cartridge range and is a belted magnum; however, it seems to be quite popular. I have never reloaded a belted magnum, so I am a bit concerned there. Any comments about the round and reloading for it?

Thanks for any advice and help.

 

[kaferhaus]

It would seem that some of your wants are at odds with each other...

First 7mag out of a short barrel is a waste of gunpowder and defeats the purpose of having a magnum in the first place...they use very slow burning propellants and need the extra barrel length to develop the high velocities that make them a "magnum" in the first place.

Hunting type iron sights and "accurate" are relative terms. Past 100M most folks will find it difficult to properly place a bullet.... many can't do it past 50M. You may be an accomplished marksman with open sights, I don't know, but they are rare these days.

Unlikely the rifle was built in Europe. Many countries will require an imported gun pass their proofing... another way to "tax"...

Unless you're going to equip the rifle with "target" type sights, reloading is likely a waste of time. And of course "target" type sights generally make poor hunting sights.

You've obviously got a bit of change to play with but for what you're wanting to do, I can't see spending it (or that much of it).

Seems a nice BLR in 308 or some such would suit your purposes.

Actually a good ol 30-30 is about the perfect gun for what you've said you wanna do with it.

 

[farscott]

kaferhaus,

Thanks for the comments.

I agree about the short barrel not making sense for the belted magnum. I do want the shorter barrel for brush, and the magnum caliber was not my first choice. Caliber is irrelevant to me as long as it is readily available and I can find lots of load data.

At 150 yards or under, I am proficient with iron sights. I never shot a scoped rifle until I was in my thirties, so iron sights were it for over twenty years. I learned with a Marlin 39A, applied the lessons to a Marlin 1894, and went from there. Today I only own one scoped rifle, and it is for varmint hunting. The rest of my rifles wear open sights or peep sights.

For this rifle, absolute accuracy is not the goal. Being able to take a running deer is the goal. The fiber optic sight seems like a good idea for low light.

I want to be able to reload the round so that I can tailor the load to the gun and to save a bit of money. I rather have a large one-time cost (the rifle) than a large recurring cost (factory ammo). My thoughts on reloading would be to aim for .270 Winchester velocities rather than 7mm Magnum velocities. I do want to have factory ammo available if reloading is not possible (usually a time constraint for me).

I did look at the BLR, and I found the sights lacking. The rifle was also a poor fit to me. Thanks for the suggestion.

.30-30 is a good idea, but I do want something a bit flatter shooting.

 

[Jim Watson]

1. I don't see where a quarter rib has any effect, positive or negative, on conventional iron sights. Didn't on my Ruger No 1 .45-70, anyhow. If it were a Frechified battue sight it would be different.

2. Winchester has built a good number of rifles not usually seen here FOR the European market. They are not made IN Europe, just proofed as required by law in most foreign lands. This is likely a short run special order rifle for some distributor, and that is all "Custom" means. It is highly unlikely that it means you will be getting any better quality than normally comes out of the plant, just some different detail specifications.

3. I don't know about the degree of precision that Winchester and the froggies expect out of this setup. Fibre optic beads are fast but not real sharp in my (Pistol) experience.

4. Reloading procedures for belted cases are pretty well established. Most folks size the brass to where it headspaces on the shoulder and ignore the belt. Starting loads for 7mm RM will put you in the .280 or '06 category.

 

[farscott]

Mr. Watson,

Thanks for the information about the probable origin and reloading hint.

 

[mtnbkr]

Why not get the factory Winchester that fits your non-sight needs and have a gunsmith install the sights you want. It would probably be cheaper than trying to find that "one perfect rifle".

Personally, I think a M70 Featherweight in 6.5x55 or 7x57 modified with whatever sights you want would be ideal. Yes, I really like that rifle...

Chris

 

[farscott]

Chris,

Buying a rifle and modifying it to be what I want is something I did investigate. I actually may go that route. The price I was quoted for a new 30-'06 M70 Featherweight was $650 OTD. I estimate the iron sights to be about $100, and the labor to install them at about $70. In other words, the total is about what I was quoted for the "Euro" 7mm M70. It is a viable option, and it is an option I may pursue. I am sure I could save some money by looking for a used M70 or Remington M700.

The features that caught my eye on the "Euro" were the Monte Carlo stock and the sights. For some reason, rifles with Monte Carlo stocks give me a really good cheek weld, and I like high profile sights.

I guess I need to think things over and try a few rifles.

 

[mtnbkr]

For some reason, rifles with Monte Carlo stocks give me a really good cheek weld, and I like high profile sights.

That sounds like a Remington 700BDL to me. I came very close to getting one of those, but they were a tad heavy in the hand for my taste.

A perfect rifle for me would be the Win Featherweight with a small MC cheekpiece (similar to the cheekpiece on the fullstock M-S Carbines) and iron sights. I'm a scope user, but would like irons sights and a quick release scope mount.

Speaking of which, a fullstocked M-S carbine in 7x57, 270, or 30-06 might be what you're looking for as well. They're light, have good sights (at least the ones I've seen) and beautiful. The downside is the price. The last one I saw was a proprietary 8mm cartridge with scope and mount for $1000. That was a low price and I should've bought it, but I'm holding out for a 6.5x54 Mannlicher or 7x57.

Here's an example:

Here's the left hand side of another example, showing the cheekpiece:

Chris

 

[farscott]

Chris,

Thanks for the Mannlicher and M700 suggestions. I need to investigate the M-S; it was a rifle I never considered.

 

[Fumbler]

Now that you might be considering other guns, take a look at Tikka's T3 Battue.
It has a 1/4 rib open sights.

I have a T3 Lite and it has got to be the slickest action short of a...well short of a Sako.

http://www.tikka.fi

 

[farscott]

Fumbler,

Thanks for the suggestion. That Battue Tikka looks very interesting to me.