Winchester "Black Talon"--would you use it?

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Cosmoline

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I came across a box of genunine 180 grain .357 Winchester Black Talons today and picked it up. Mainly I'm going to scare liberals with it, but it got me thinking. Would you use this for self defense? It's nothing more than an earlier version of the SXT, which is perfectly fine as a defensive round. But the media hype and mythology around it is completely out of control. Does anyone use actual Black Talons for defense?

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NO. I would not use them for self defense.

Why not? Becasue as you stated the SXT is basically the same thing.

The Black Talon ammo has a value above that of .357 SD ammo - it is now a collectors item and someone (not me tho) would probably pay you much more than it cost you. You could go out and buy double maybe triple the amount of rounds but it will be SXT vs. Black Talon.

I would either auction it off now and take the profit to the range or save it to auction off years from now for even more.
 
NO , like everyone else has said SXT is the same thing so keep it as a collector's item . I've got a pristine box of 45ACp and 9mm in the drawer .
 
I wouldn't load up with it either. Black Talon has a stigma attached to it, in the eyes of society. If you used it in self defense, it could be one more thing the prosecution/complainant would try to use against you. Now everybody on THR knows that ammo is ammo, a hollowpoint is a hollowpoint, and there's nothing really special about Black Talon, though it did introduce a few new innovations.
But personally, I'd find something else to use, something that's still being manufactured, is widely used by law enforcement, and isn't named anything inflammatory, like "Talon", "Exploder", "Pulverizer", or some such.
 
I thought I read somewhere that the first generation black talons and the newer ranger SXT's are a little different in design. The black talons don't expand as much.
 
I agree

I would sell them later as well as not use them for sd due to public opinion. Plus i think technology is better today so therefore modern bullets are prolly better overall. Go buy new ammo and save the talons. just my .02
 
Its a collectors item, I'd keep it or sell it and run something I was able to test and shoot through my gun first instead. I'd just scrounge $20 and get a 50 round box of ranger t first though.
 
Well all the Rhetoric aside, I would carry those nice 180 grain .357's in that nifty Speed Six out in the boonies. Black Talons DID expand at the 1000 fps that combo should produce. I used that load in a 2 1/2" model 19 many years ago and it killed a pig or two and lots of other critters. .65" + expansion and 18" of penetration; whats NOT to like!:)
 
I'm in the same situation. I've got a box of .40 Black Talons that I've had for at least 10 years.

I decided long ago not to use it for a few reasons. First, which may not apply as much since you are talking about a revolver, I always like to shoot several mags worth of any JHP before even considering carrying that load. I want to ensure that it feeds nicely, groups nicely, hits POA nicely, etc. With only one box, I can't test it enough to rely on it.

Second, if I'm ever involved in a shooting and have to go through criminal/civil proceedings, I'd rather not have to make my attorney work extra to try to educate the public about Black Talons vs other cartidges while my butt is on the line. :)

The third reason is also why I don't sell them either. They have too much of a novelty value to me to sell or use at this point. While I could just go burn them up for the experience, I doubt it would be any more gratifying than a regular box of JHPs. As far as selling them, they go for about $30-40 a box on gunbroker.com. To me, they are worth that much conversation piece since I already have them. If they start going for $100 a box, then sure, I'll get rid of them. But for $35, it's not worth the hassle for me.

Assuming you didn't pay through the nose for them, I'd just hold on to them for the hell of it.
 
When Winchester anounced their decision to stop selling it, I immediately ordered a few boxes from Midway. I later traded them off to someone who really needed it.
For me they are not worth as much as the market pays, I'd sell them again.
 
I would keep them. If it came down to it and you had to use them than that is different.

But right now they are a novelty. As well as if you are involved in a shooting they will be used as ammo (bad pun I know) against you.
 
NO!

Bad for the BG yes but also very bad for the surgeon who has to go in with latex and dig razor sharp fragments and pieces out in cases where BG isn't DOA. That risks contaminating an innocent Doc to whatever they BG may have.

I thought they were a neat idea at the time until a paramedic buddy told me this and I promptly shot off what rounds I had left.
 
I bought 3 boxes of Talons (.45acp) from a pawn shop owner going out of business last year. Only paid $30.00 for all 3 boxes :D . I shot one box through the G30 and it left alot of lead fouling in the barrel. IMO I wouldnt shoot them through anything. The remaining 2 boxes are pristine, unopened, and will stay that way, till I find some rube willing to pay a premium for my "grandfathered" AP hollow points ;). Any takers? FWIW I use Speer Gold Dots in the pistolas now so I can always claim "its what my local PD issues".

very bad for the surgeon who has to go in with latex and dig razor sharp fragments and pieces out in cases where BG isn't DOA
Click to expand...

By the way this is a myth. They are no worse than any other hollow point round.
 
Re: Black Talons

God, I want some of those... :what:

However...

OK, bear with me... not trying to introduce demographic into the situation, just trying to be as honest as possible in the way I think about all this.

Being young, and black (although the same would apply if I were white)... even though I hold a CPL... if I ever have to shoot someone in self-defense, I'm already going to have enough to deal with legally as it is... it's bad enough using modern JHPs, and I've heard of at least one jury convicting a man solely because he used them to defend himself. The last thing I think I would want to hear during questioning (or trial) would be,

"Well what the hell are you doing with these armor piercing, teflon coated, cop-killer razorwire-bullets??? After all, they were banned more than 10 years ago, right!?!?!"

Granted, that's all pretty false and extravagent... but you know how folks can be. Big no-no for SD IMHO. I might use them for hunting though, or defense against animals if I were worried about that sort of thing. If I did acquire some, I'd hold on to at least one unopened box, but I'd HAVE to shoot some of them off. I never was much of a collector, though. Something about buying something cool, and then letting it sit there forever untouched... that just never registered too well with me.

I would imagine they are quite wonderful for scaring liberals though. The reaction they got from the media almost makes me wonder if they weren't solely designed for that purpose. :D
 
Use for the appropriate social occasions and apply as needed. If they're not illegal use 'em most people have short memories for such things.
 
Bad for the BG yes but also very bad for the surgeon who has to go in with latex and dig razor sharp fragments and pieces out in cases where BG isn't DOA. That risks contaminating an innocent Doc to whatever they BG may have.
Click to expand...

The paramedic friend that told you that made that up. That story was commonly told by the media at the time of the hysteria regarding the Black Talons. All hollowpoints produce sharp metal edges that can cut through latex gloves, and injure someone. The Black Talons are no worse than any other hollowpoint in that regard.

Also, most of the time, no one digs out bullet fragments anyway.
 
And current Ranger SX (Talon) opens better , is sharper and better al around. Trouble is ; they don't make 180 grain .357 Ranger (Talon!):rolleyes:
 
I've never been cut by any brand of hollowpoint, when I pulled them out of ballistic gelatin. That would include a few hundred bullets of different brands and calibers and about 20 Ranger/Talon bullets. Not knowing how doctors remove bullets, I would say the 'razor sharp edge giving the surgeon AIDS' theory is one of the more BS-filled of all regarding the Talon.

Use them. Maybe shoot one cylinder to get the feel/POA. Maybe they are 'evil' but any expert witness will be able to turn that idea on its head, I think.
 
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