Winchester Model 12 Firing Pin Replacement Issue

[chadryan]

Hi Guys. i am hoping someone here might be able to help me out with my Winchester Model 12 12ga firing pin.

I was just given my grandfather's Winchester Model 12 12ga shotgun. According to the serial number it appears to be made in 1927. When he gave it to me he said that it needed a new firing pin. The gun has been well used and he re-blued it previously so I decided to strip the gun down completely and give it a good clean. I am also in the process of refinishing the wood.

My issue is that I ordered a new firing pin from Numrich and it is slightly different than the one that was in the gun. The new firing pin is slightly longer than the old one and the shape of the groove toward the back of it is a different shape (v-shaped vs. straight up and down on top). I have searched all over the internet and I cannot find a picture of one that looks like the one that was in the gun. Every single picture that I see looks like the new one that I received from Numrich. All of the parts that were in the gun are stamped with the number "12".

When I put the new one in, it sticks out on both ends and the retractor doesn't seem to engage with it correctly. The pin seems to free float now where as the old one would not shift forward until the retractor was pushed down.

Is this a common issue? Do the older guns have a different firing pin? Here are a couple of pics. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[average_shooter]

I'm just starting to get into Winchesters, so I'm not much help, but I am curious to see the answer to this.

Is there any chance that there is a difference between the solid frame and takedown versions?

Or perhaps a 2.5" chamber vs 2.75"?

Wrong firing pin for the gauge?

 

[Jim K]

The firing pin that was in the gun appears to have been made by a gunsmith. It is shorter than the factory part because the tip is broken off (the gun probably did not fire with it installed).

Jim

 

[Sav .250]

Have you talked this problem over with the customer service folks at Numrich?

 

[chadryan]

The firing pin that was in the gun appears to have been made by a gunsmith. It is shorter than the factory part because the tip is broken off (the gun probably did not fire with it installed).

Jim

I suppose it is possible that the one in the gun was made by a gunsmith. However, it has the exact same "12" stamped on it as the rest of the parts.

Also, I understand that the tip is broken, that's why I am replacing it. But, the new firing pin is about 1/8" longer than the old one from the solid part back.

EDIT: I just asked my grandfather and he said that the pin that was in it was original from the factory. He never changed it and he bought the gun new.

 

[chadryan]

Have you talked this problem over with the customer service folks at Numrich?

I have not. Honestly, I have had pretty poor success with Numrich's customer service. I have left them two messages about other items and they have never returned a call. Also, they don't even list an email address online that I could send a picture to. Maybe I will try to call them again in the morning.

 

[chadryan]

Is there any chance that there is a difference between the solid frame and takedown versions?

Or perhaps a 2.5" chamber vs 2.75"?

Wrong firing pin for the gauge?

I had thought about this since I have read many different reports on how these guns were actually chambered. How do I determine if this gun is chambered in 2.5"? From what I read, they were almost all chambered in 2.75".

 

[rcmodel]

If it's a 12 ga Model 12 it is 2 3/4".

They never made any with 2 5/16" chambers.

rc

 

[chadryan]

If it's a 12 ga Model 12 it is 2 3/4".

They never made any with 2 5/16" chambers.

Thanks. That is pretty much what I had heard but there is a bunch of wrong information on the internet about this subject.

Also, I just fixed the pictures. Not sure if you guys could see them before or not.

 

[Kp321]

Thanks rc, you beat me to the punch with your answer on chamber length.
Also, M-12's were only made in take down configuration, the solid frame guns were M-25's and the firing pins were the same anyway. The only other answer I can think of except just the wrong part, is the pin received was for a 3" magnum gun. I have one but have not taken it apart to check firing pin length.
If you don't have any success with Numrich, Brownells carries repro firing pins for M-12's.

 

[Lafitte]

Also, if it is a model 12, it is a takedown gun. No solid frame model 12s. The replacement firing pin that you got just doesn't look correct. Midway USA has pins that work.

Lafitte

 

[a5werkes]

From my notes on M12 dates:

I noticed that in 1925 the chamber length was changed from 2 5/8 to 2 3/4"...the same year that the OP identified his gun being mfg.

Is it possible he has a 2 5/8" chamber / firing pin bolt ?

Winchester Design Engineer – Thomas Johnson, his Model 1912 design based on some John Browning designs and represented an evolution of the Winchester Model 1897 (external hammer).


1912 – Only available in 20 gauge chambered in 2 1⁄2”.


1914 – Offered in 12 gauge (chambered in 2 5/8”) & 16 gauge (chambered in 2 9/16”).

1919 – Winchester discontinued tradition of model # corresponding to year of introduction, thus the Model 12 designation.

1925 – Chamber length for 12 & 20 gauge models changed to 2 3⁄4”


1927 – 16 gauge models changed to 2 3⁄4 “


1933 - Offered .410 gauge Model 42, a scaled down design of the Model 12; designed by William Roemer

1934 – Offered in 28 gauge.


1939 – Cutts compensator (Lyman mfg.) first offered by factory for installation on 12 gauge models.


Most examples were take-down design, however solid frame versions were offered over the years.

 

[a5werkes]

Addendum of information.
Reference: The Winchester Model Twelve by George Madis

The Standards and Variations section
States that 2 3/4" was standard without mention of any variation.



However, it wasn't until about serial # 500,000 that the barrels were being stamped 2-3/4", that was 1927.



That leaves 13 years of 12 gauge production, 1914 to 1927, during which perhaps a variant in 12 gauge chamber was produced.

 

[chadryan]

Here is a pic of the markings on the barrel. As mentioned before, the serial # corresponds to early 1927.

 

[a5werkes]

Thanks for your barrel photo. Its always interesting to see how much corroboration there is between actual photos and legacy textbooks.

I see yours is stamped
Nickel Steel - Winchester Model 12 - 12 ga Full

mfg. prior to routine factory stamping chamber length on the barrels.