Winchester Model 12 - Spare Barrel Assembly Questions

[Zero Knives]

I found a beat up Model 12 at a local gun shop and I've fallen in love with it. It's all original, wood's decent and the bluing's at about 30-40%. Don't know what type it is, but it's a 12GA with a 26"~ barrel.

I thought it might make a nice addition to the shooting collection as well as something I can display in the study. I would like to get another spare barrel assy that's either shortened or act as a donor to be shortened. I've seen a few here and there on Gunbroker, but I'm worried how compatible these things are. This gun dated to '28-'29, am I limited to those vintages as far as spare parts?

Thanks in advance,
Ram

 

[HuntAndFish]

Generally barrel assemblies on the M12 are not interchangeable and here's why. The first 1/4 inch of the chamber is a barrel ring that is contained in the receiver and fitted to the original barrel. If you remove your barrel and then look into the receiver where the barrel just came out you can see this barrel ring. That ring must be absolutely concentric with the barrel or the brass will come out of the gun with a ring in it, fail to extract, and generally be a problem.
You can have a gunsmith remove the old barrel ring and fit a new one to a new barrel (and ream it on the inside for head space) but then it won't be correct for the original barrel.
You can certainly buy a new barrel assembly and keep it as a spare, but I would only use it after your original wears out and then only after it has been fitted to the current barrel ring or a new barrel ring installed in the receiver and fitted to your spare barrel.

However, except for the barrel itself all of the rest of the assembly should be compatible except for maybe the tube-barrel clamp that holds the tube and barrel together. There are two types depending on the barrel itself. Older guns had a rib on the barrel (under the clamp) the two bushing screws impinged into. Newer guns have barrels with just dimples (under the clamp) on the barrel outside diameter for the screws.

http://www.wrightsgunsmiths.com/scan0002.jpg

You can see the two barrel types in this diagram. The barrel marked 13812 has a rib for part 14412. The barrel ring is part 5812 in the picture of the receiver at the bottom of the diagram.

 

[don]

Ram, how did you determine the age of your model 12? I have one that inherited from my father and am curious about its age.

 

[chas08]

It can be done. Two barrel sets were available for a price when Model 12's were on top. The main problem is; you have to fit the spare barrel to the barrel ring that fits the original barrel, or find a common measurement between both barrels +/- tolerance and the ring, that will work. The really difficult part is finding a competent Model 12 Gunsmith these days. And if you do, be prepared to spend some money.

 

[Zero Knives]

Thanks for the detailed responses. Looks like I won't be able to do what I was hoping. Isn't a big deal since it's a beauty the way it is.

To clarify, I was looking to purchase a spare barrel/magazine assembly and latch the whole thing on to it, but I didn't know about the barrel ring that remained in the receiver. my next question then would be, are all these assemblies hand fit then?

Don, the shop guys have a book and they looked it up for me. If you want to PM me your S/N I could ask them to look up the vintage.

 

[rcmodel]

Winchester serial numbers:

http://oldguns.net/sn_php/windateslookup.php

rc

 

[JNewell]

Nuline can still do it. Simmons probably can. I'm sure there are others. The obstacle as mentioned is that it would probably co$t your more than the co$t of the gun...

 

[Red Cent]

Here's Red Cent's two cents.
The M12 is a direct descendant of the M1897. Of which I own four and used to own more at a time. A number of the 97s in our hobby show up with swapped barrels. The receiver extension has a serial # on it as does the receiver. They are about an inch apart. The receiver extension that exists between the receiver and the barrel/mag tube is removeable along with the total front end. Loosen the barrel/mag tube band up at the muzzle. At the end of the mag tube, the pin should be pushed (holding the gun in your right hand as if to shoot) away and down from you. Twist the tube 1/4 turn and pull the mag tube out of the extension ring. If you can turn the tube easily, do so the quarter turn and firmly push forward on the forearm. If it is difficult, rack the action and push out firmly. This will lift the mag tube out of the receiver and also pull the action arm out of the hole in the left side of the receiver.
You would need to get another receiver ring for the shotgun. If I remember correctly, if it is purchased out of state the seller must send it to an FFl holder. If you find a gunsmith to agree that a 97 barrel is the same as a M12 barrel, and will fit to the receiver extension, I will sell you an 18 1/2" barrel that has been backbored, forcing cone lengthened, and barrel polished inside. The barrel has two wrench marks toward the breech. Yes, seems someone tried to remove it with a pipe wrench. They are not deep and they are very smooth.
Again, extension ring for the new/old barrel and you can use the mag tube, forearm, and action bar when you switch. you could switch in five minutes once you see it done. PM if interested. I have four more barrels that I am going to sell. They will go between $65.00 and $90.00. Up to you.

 

[Red Cent]

PS: I am looking at my M12 riot gun as I described the proceedure. Receiver ring is probably $40.00 and the gunsmith should not charge you more than one hour to fit the barrel in the extension ring. Maybe $45.00.

 

[Red Cent]

rcmodel, that is a blank page except it says 'Winchester serial numbers" across the top.

 

[highorder]

Try this. rc's link was missing a bit.

 

[HuntAndFish]

my next question then would be, are all these assemblies hand fit then?

Yes, they are. There are some wonderful, simple, but expensive tools to ream the barrel ring for concentricity and headspace with an existing barrel. How you would machine a second barrel to fit an existing ring is way above my pay grade.

They are wonderful old guns, just not as flexible as newer designs.

 

[Red Cent]

I do not know about the others, but all you need to do is have someone headspace the new barrel in the new receiver with receiver extension/barrel turned onto the barrel.
That is one of the 97s I use on the left. Next is the offered barrel. Next is the barrel, receiver extension, mag tube, action bar (wooden forend fits over a section of the action bar) and the receiver and guts.

 

[JNewell]

The OP should talk to someone at Nuline or Simmons before he does anything. You don't have to pay them to do the work, but you should understand the scope and nature of the project.