Winchester primers - yea or nay?

[mgmorden]

He wont be buying any primers then. Only time I see them less than $30 is when Cabelas has them onsale $29.99. $32 to $40 is the norm these days. I hate paying $40 but its still actually cheap compared to factory ammo..

Wideners has S&B on sale for $21.50 per 1000 right now.

You just have to keep your eye open.

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001603&dir=

 

[theslasher]

Online.. Sure! But where locally can you just go in and buy 1 brick of primers for less than $30? Not happening.. I buy mine locally for $32 any brand I want except benchrest. Thats a good price in my book all things considered..

 

[mgmorden]

Online.. Sure! But where locally can you just go in and buy 1 brick of primers for less than $30? Not happening...

Just buy online then .

Last batch of primers I bought I bought 12,000 at a time. As long as you're buying in bulk (5000 or more) you can more than offset the price of hazmat and shipping.

Of course primers at all local shops here are closer to $45 per thousand. I can get them for $30-35 per 1k at a gunshow, but by the time I pay $5 in gas and $8 admission I'm already half-way to the hazmat fee.

 

[spitballer]

I had a very poor experience using Winchester "small rifle" primers for the .223 Remington. I think they are designed for smaller cartridges. Much prefer CCI 400's for the .223. Can't speak for other calibers.

 

[wlkjr]

Just buy online then .

Last batch of primers I bought I bought 12,000 at a time. As long as you're buying in bulk (5000 or more) you can more than offset the price of hazmat and shipping.

Of course primers at all local shops here are closer to $45 per thousand. I can get them for $30-35 per 1k at a gunshow, but by the time I pay $5 in gas and $8 admission I'm already half-way to the hazmat fee.

First part of this year I bought a mixture of 25,000 large and small Winchester, CCI, and Tula. Paid $736 shipped. Have not use any of the Tula yet but good results with the others. Bought 5000 Winchesher SPP from a friend last week for $150.

 

[jgh4445]

Win primers are fine for me..never had an issue. Same with Fed, especially 215's. Had two FTF with CCI this past deer season. In both cases the primer was hit solidly and dented as per normal. Both primers were from different lots. No more CCI for me. If I find someone in Alabama who wants to trade their WIN or FED primers, primer for primer, we'll meet and do the deal.

 

[edfardos]

I literally have pits in my revolver recoil plate in the shape of a W.

no WLP in 44mag, especially in RP brass. Probably fine in low pressure 45acp tho.


edfardos

 

[Clippers]

They're my preference for 45 Colt, I've been stocking up on them lately at about $31 per 1000.

 

[travisd]

All I shoot is Winchester..

 

[DIV03]

I just bought 20K of Winchester primers.

 

[USSR]

They're my preference for 45 Colt

Yep, no need to buy magnum LP primers for warm loads using some of the harder to ignite powders in the big bore handguns.

Don

 

[Walkalong]

I have been shooting Winchester WLP primers in .41 Mag, .44 Mag, 45 ACP, and .45 Colt with no problems in any of them.

Never had any problems with Federal large pistol primers in those either.

I have some Wolf large pistol primers, but I haven't tried them yet.

 

[alsaqr]

Winchester has been my preferred primers for about 50 years.

 

[FROGO207]

I have been shooting WIN primers in all my various loads across the sizes for years with no problems. Actually I can't remember when I had a primer related problem in ANY brand other than trying to insert them sideways never worked..

 

[Captcurt]

As long as we are the subject of Winchester primers....
I read/heard that Winchester pistol primers are softer and good for firing pins with light strikes. Any truth to that?

About to find out. My Contender doesn't go bang with CCI in my 7mm TCU.

 

[fiftybmg]

I used to think FTFs were primer specific, or due to 'hard' primers, because of a Glock in 10mm, Redhawk , Security Six and model 29 that would FTF often enough to make the problem annoying.

I tried different primers and the problem never went away.

It is said that primers not fully seated can cause an FTF, but I check my reloads for primers seated proud and put those rounds in the reject bin. If the primer is not seated fully it's not visible to my eye, so I can't prove that theory.

The Glock had oil in the firing pin channel, the Redhawk and Security Six needed shims, and the model 29 set screw in the grip was backed out.

After attending to those issues, the FTF problem in all 4 guns was gone, but by then I had started using S&B primers exclusively because they were supposed to be the softest.

Due to S&B LP not being available recently, I am now loading with Winchester.

 

[Comrade Mike]

Only brand I use!

 

[Slamfire]

As long as we are the subject of Winchester primers....
I read/heard that Winchester pistol primers are softer and good for firing pins with light strikes. Any truth to that?

True, at the turn of the century Winchester made a product change that made all of their primers more sensitive. That is just fine with pistol ammunition, but not so good in rifles.

The brass WSR just ate up a hand full of AR15 firing pins, I had to cut my old nickle plate WSR loads by 1.5 grains and that was not the direction I wanted to go. Then, the brass WLR are becoming the second most slamfiring primer on the market in Garands, because the primer is too sensitive for that mechanism.

I use Winchester in pistols only.

 

[USSR]

I've used the brass Winchester LRP's for Garand loads for the last dozen years with complete safety. Simply saying that a primer has been made more sensitive tells you nothing. Was it's sensitivity increased by 1%, 5%, or 10%? If you make sure you uniform the primer pockets of Garand brass and don't use Federal primers, you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than having a slamfire in a properly working M1 Garand.

Don

 

[Mohave-Tec]

For heavy hitting firing pins I use CCI. For lighter hitting firing pins, I use Winchester. The cups are stronger in CCI. This usually equates to CCI for rifles and Winchester for pistols but not always.

 

[Mohave-Tec]

FROGO207, come to my house. I can show you how to insert a primer sideways. I've done it quite a few times.

 

[Scott1964]

I would try Fed, CCI and Win and see what works best for your loads in your firearm and then stick to it. You will still want to tinker with other loads but mass produce your best performer. Aint this a great hobby?

 

[40-82]

I've been reloading over fifty years, and I've used Winchester, Federal, Remington, and CCI. They all have slightly different characteristics, but they're all a high quality product. Enough so that when a beginning reloader starts complaining about misfires, I look to his reloading technique, his storage of components, or a problem with the gun for an answer to the problem. Anything made by human hands can fail, but I have faith in these primers.

 

[just for fun]

My Academy has both CCI and Winchester. $3.99 per 100.

Whoa, they sure do seem to be VERY proud of those puppies! At that price I'll shop for Federal primers

 

[Slamfire]

I've used the brass Winchester LRP's for Garand loads for the last dozen years with complete safety. Simply saying that a primer has been made more sensitive tells you nothing. Was it's sensitivity increased by 1%, 5%, or 10%? If you make sure you uniform the primer pockets of Garand brass and don't use Federal primers, you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than having a slamfire in a properly working M1 Garand.

When I bought my SuperMatch M1a’s, Springfield Armory provided a copy of Wayne Fattz’s article “The Mysterious Slamfire” which was printed in the American Rifleman in Oct 1983. http://www.scribd.com/doc/2649554/The-Mysterious-Slamfire-

Mr. Faatz had an out of battery slamfire, from the clip, with Federal primers. He wrote an article trying to understand why it happened to him.

First on his list of slamfire causes is a sensitive primer.

1. Sensitive Primer (included under this category is a high primer)
2. Minimum headspace chamber and inadequate case sizing (leading to the firing pin hitting the primer with excessive force)
3. Hammer following the bolt
4. Fouled bolt face​

All service rifles with free floating firing pins rely on primer insensitivity to prevent the primer from igniting when struck by a rebounding firing pin.

SKS’s slamfire so often there are lots of slamfire reports with SKS’s, Murray’s has a firing pin modification to reduce the chance of slamfires. Also, the SKS boards has this excellent “A primer on primers”

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

In the recent M1A manual: Springfield Armory M1A Manual, page 4

www.springfield-armory.com/download.php?asset=M1AManual.pdf

Ammunition

The M1A is designed and built to specifications to shoot standard factory military 7.62 NATO ammunition. The specifications for standard military ammunition include harder primers to withstand the slight indentation from the firing pin when the bolt chambers a cartridge. This slight indentation is normal. The use of civilian ammunition with more sensitive primers or hand loads with commercial primers and/or improperly seated primers increase the risk of primer detonation when the bolt slams forward. This unexpected "slam fire" can occur even if the trigger is not being pulled and if the safety is on. Use of military specification ammunition will help avoid this. Every shooter should use extreme caution when loading this or any other firearm. See page 17 for instructions on proper loading to help avoid a "slam fire". Also see enclosed article on “Slam Fire” written by Wayne Faatz​

USATECOM Project No 8F-3002-04, Comparison Test of rifles, 7.62 MM, M14 Manufactured by Springfield Armory and Harrington and Richardson Arms Company. Author G. E. Hendricks, July 1963.

I have a paper copy of this report. The Army was testing production models of H&R’s and SA’s for dimensional part compliance, (part interchangeability), such things as the thickness of the chrome coatings were measures, rifles were reassembled after gaging and underwent endurance testing.

At round 5271 a Springfield Armory M14 went off out of battery. The report states:

“One rifle fired when the bolt was in the unlocked position causing breakage for the firing pin, extractor, bolt roller, ejector, and stock. The magazine split, causing the magazine floor-plate spring and 12 rounds of ammunition to be ejected against the bench rest from which the rifle was being fired. The case ruptured and several pieces of brass were found in the area. A broken part of piece of brass perforated a cardboard box with was position between the gunner and the proof director. The cardboard box was used as a brass catcher. Not all the broken pieces were found. Although no one was physically injured this is a seriously unsafe condition.”​

This is the only data I have found on slamfires and mil spec primers. Out of 35,000 rounds fired, one rifle slamfired out of battery with a mil spec primer. Therefore I estimate the odds of having an out of battery slamfire to be 1:35,000 each shot. Using more sensitive commercial primers only increases the slamfire probability, by how much, I don’t know.