Winchester small pistol primers no BANG

[sequins]

Call Winchester and alert them of their mistake if you are certain it's their fault at this point. Bad primers are exceedingly rare so that's some really rotten luck.

I like CCI and never reduce springs, but many swear by Federal so I can't fault you going that route. I've improperly seated CCI but it always goes bang the second time.

 

[gonoles_1980]

In my Charter Arms 38 spl, I switched to Winchester primaries because I was having an issue with CCI, had the same issue with the Winchester, would take 2 hits or not fire at all. One of the posters on here told me about a technique where he reprimed the primers (not the correct terminology), but basically I use the hand primer on my 38spl's, then I press them with the press primer to flatten them out before loading gunpowder. Ever since I started doing that I have had a 100% success rate with the primers. My guess is even though you probably can't see it, the primers aren't being flushed against the bottom of the case enough for that particular gun. In my 357, I never have an issue with just hand priming.

 

[LiveLife]

Well I did run a small indoor match last night great hit but no BANG.

I tried it again after the match still no bang.

Did the offending rounds fire on second/third firing?

Are you having same no BANG problem in other pistols?

Any of these brass had their primer pockets reamed/modified? With mixed range brass with unknown history, I found primer pocket depth could vary and this could cause failure to fire even when primer was seated to flush. If these can be seated deeper with hand primer and go BANG, it's not the primer rather primer pocket depth to set the anvil tip against the priming compound.

I would have you try this to make sure you are seating the primers to the point where the tip of the anvil is pre-loaded against the priming compound:

• Deprime and resize some brass
• Inspect primer pockets for debri and measure depth for consistency (Set aside deeper primer pocket cases to test separately)
• Hand prime or press prime ensuring the top of primer cup is seated BELOW flush (Preferably .004"-.008" below flush as measured with end of calipers)
• Prime some deeper primer pocket cases to flush and set this aside separately
• Chamber primed cases (NO bullet, NO powder) in the barrel (My Glocks will feed/chamber resized/primed cases from magazine or you can manually drop the primed brass in the chamber and release the slide)
• Fire pistol pointed in safe direction wearing hearing protection

If all "below flush" seated primers go BANG, it's not the primer

If any deeper primer pocket cases with primers seated to flush failed to fire, you may have found one cause of misfire

If you still experience no BANG with below flush seated primers, try other pistols or inspect back wall of breech face for hard caked on fouling build up and soak/scrape off the build up. (This thin hard caked on build up is hard to casually detect as it will seem like a thin layer of veneer/paint. But after soaking in Hoppes #9 solvent and if can be scraped/flaked off, it's hard caked on fouling build up that can limit striker pin travel to cause failure to ignite primers regardless of spring rate - Even after striker pin/spring replacement as tip of striker simply won't go forward enough to indent the priming compound against the tip of the primer anvil)

If all primers go BANG with other pistols or after scraping off hard caked on fouling build up, it's not the primer.


See the anvil feet sticking out below the primer cup? They need to be pressed in to set the anvil tip against the priming compound (I think packing the primers so anvil tip is not set against the priming compound maybe done for safety) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ts-your-experience.630512/page-2#post-7794378

Priming compound is held by cup/barrier and moisture sealant as shown below with different color barrier (Color you see under the primer anvil is not the color of the priming compound rather the color of barrier/sealant)

Different brand primers have different shape/tip/height of anvil and the tip must be pre-loaded/set against the priming compound for reliable ignition. Proper seating of primers is a 2 step process and if you stop at Step 1 with anvil tip not pre-loaded/set against the priming compound, initial striker hit may not result in primer ignition rather seat the primer deeper, setting the anvil tip against the priming compound. If this is the case, second/third primer strike will ignite the primer.

Step 1 - The initial resistance you feel when seating primer is primer cup being pushed down the primer pocket. Depending on the primer pocket depth, seating primer cup flush may not set the anvil tip against the priming compound.

Step 2 - The secondary resistance you feel is primer anvil feet bottoming with primer pocket and sliding up inside the cup to pre-load/set against the priming compound (.004" below flush) and face of cup deforming (.008" below flush).

BTW, properly seated primers should look like these. Notice some flattening of primer cup face at .004" below flush and additional flattening of primer cup face at .008" below flush (You can see variation in primer cup hardness by amount of primer cup flattening). My QC check is to load finished rounds in bullet tray and run my finger tip over the primers to feel below flush seated primers. Any high primer I detect gets seated deeper

 

[ballman6711]

As a long time shooter and relatively new reloader, I have to agree with most here.

Try your ammo in another gun. If it goes BANG consistently, I would look at the gun you're using. I have found many problems with my guns fixed by a complete strip and detail clean, including problems with ammo not working consistently.

If your ammo won't work in other guns, then it's the ammo. Have you changed something in your reloading process?

2500 rounds is 2-1/2 bricks (basically three bricks) of primers. Are they all the same lot #?

Something isn't adding up here>

chris

 

[RealGun]

FYI the current Winchesters are represented as "more sensitive". One could expect different results with some newer production. A blanket condemnation would just limit your supply choices...kind of like Lee recommending avoidance of Federal primers, which are de rigueur in race guns with light springs.

 

[ballman6711]

Just an example, I recently had a "batch" of CCI primers that I tried in 45acp. I was running a ladder test with fifty rounds. Turned my 3" Kimber 1911 into a single shot, where the same loads with WLP primers functioned fine.

I was also doing a "torture test" on the gun at the time to see how far I could go without cleaning.

I reloaded the same ladder test with the CCI primers, and shot them thru the same gun, this time properly cleaned and lubed. Not one failure.

So the bad "batch" of CCI primers was really my dirty and dry gun.

chris

 

[Slamfire]

The more reduced power mainsprings and striker springs you install, the sooner you will figure out that a less powerful ignition system is a bad idea.

 

[Slamfire]

Did the offending rounds fire on second/third firing?

Are you having same no BANG problem in other pistols?

Any of these brass had their primer pockets reamed/modified? With mixed range brass with unknown history, I found primer depth could vary and this could cause failure to fire even when primer was seated to flush. If these can be seated deeper with hand primer and go BANG, it's not the primer rather primer pocket depth to set the anvil tip against the priming compound.

I would have you try this to make sure you are seating the primers to the point where the tip of the anvil is pre-loaded against the priming compound:

• Deprime and resize some brass
• Inspect primer pockets and measure depth for consistency (Set aside deeper primer pocket cases to test separately)
• Hand prime or press prime ensuring the top of primer cup is seated BELOW flush (.004"-.008" below flush as measured with end of calipers)
• Prime some deeper primer pocket cases to flush
• Chamber resized and primed case (NO bullet, NO powder) in the barrel (My Glocks will feed/chamber resized/primed cases from magazine or you can manually drop the primed brass in the chamber)
• Fire pistol pointed in safe direction wearing hearing protection

If all primers go BANG, it's not the primer

If any deeper primer pocket cases with primers seated to flush failed to fire, you may have found one cause of misfire

If you still experience no BANG with below flush seated primers, try other pistols or inspect back wall of breech face for hard caked on fouling build up and soak/scrape off the build up. (This thin hard caked on build up is hard to casually detect as it will seem like a thin layer of veneer/paint. But after soaking in Hoppes #9 solvent and can be scraped/flaked off, it's hard caked on fouling build up that can limit striker pin travel to cause failure to ignite primers - Even after striker pin/spring replacement)

If all primers go BANG with other pistols or after scraping off hard caked on fouling build up, it's not the primer.


See the anvil feet sticking out below the primer cup? They need to be pressed in to set the anvil tip against the priming compound (I think packing the primers so anvil tip is not set against the priming compound maybe done for safety) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ts-your-experience.630512/page-2#post-7794378

BTW, properly seated primers should look like these (My QC check is to load finished rounds in bullet tray and run my finger tip over the primers to feel below flush seated primers. Any high primer I detect gets seated deeper)

Great post.

 

[Englishmn]

If it didn't pop on the stove they missed the priming compound.
(If you do that wear eye and ear pro and step way back.)
When I had bad seating no bangs the stove always set them off.