Winchesters 350 Legend

[mcb]

Late to the thread...

Personally I think Winchester intended/designed it be a 9mm rifle cartridge and then realized it would then be illegal in Ohio and have simply started stating in all the promo material that its a .357 caliber rifle cartridge. (see my thread on that for more reasons and conspiracy theories: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-hunting-legality-i-dont-think-it-is.851085/) Either way....

I think it fits in an interesting if convoluted niche between 300 BO and 450 Bushmaster. It's a straight wall cartridge for those that have to hunt in straight-wall states and has more than enough power for deer hunting in short to medium ranges. But it also have the potential to be a great suppressed cartridge. It gives up no magazine capacity to 300 BO but can deliver more sub-sonic energy on target than 300 BO can. If I didn't already have a 450 Bushmaster and two 300 BO firearms I would give the 350 Legend a serious look, especially if I had a 9mm or larger caliber suppressor to run on it.

The whole form brass from 223/556 just does not hold much water for me. Sure its would be a neat feature, but I have well over 1000 peices of 300 BO brass and I bet less than 5% of that started life as 223/556. If the cartridge does what you want it to do you will invest in the brass whether you make it or buy it. I suspect that 350 Legend brass is going to last for a fair number of trips through the press.

Like 450 Bushmaster you will have lots of cheap pistol bullet to use for plinking ammo and yet there are still sufficient good tough bullets available to load good hunting rounds also. Like 450 Bushmaster, as 350 Legend becomes more popular you will get more and more cartridge specific bullets brought to market.

 

[CraigC]

SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawings are much more than just marketing material. It makes FAR more sense to make it compatible with existing .357 bullets than 9mm. For pretty much any .357 bullet could be utilized for one purpose or another but pretty much NO 9mm bullets are applicable. IMHO, you're seriously overthinking this.

 

[gotboostvr]

It's a cartridge that ticks alot of boxes for me, not all of them, but alot.

When PSA inevitably drops some <$200 uppers for it, I'll most likely grab one.

 

[adcoch1]

Fact is, if a new cartridge succeeds, we all win. In one way or another.

Can't like this enough!
I will state again that I hope Winchester is in this for the long haul, and I am really looking forward to some more good heavy weight 357 pistol bullets that this cartridge may inspire. Fresh blood in the mid bore rifle market can't be a bad thing, I just wish they had stuck with 223 basic as the parent brass. No complaints about it otherwise.

 

[Buckeye63]

The factory loads for the 350 L that interests me , are the Winchester 180gr Power point and the Hornady 170gr Interlock ...
A great bullet option for the 350L for reloading would be a 180gr hardcast gas check with a wide flat nose


When handloading for the 35 Rem & 356 Win , back in the day, one of my favorite bullets was the Speer 180gr FP .. Very tuff bullet ,.the overall shape of the bullet was a spire point but with a flat tip ...


Im not even zero'ed in my RAR in 7.62x39 and Im thinking about a RAR in 350 L

 

[earlthegoat2]

It ticks no boxes for me and I hunt a straight wall state.

I’m trying to envision a scenario that this cartridge is a solution to. There are better options for pigs especially since nearly all the good places for pig hunting are not straight wall states.

Unless you are really recoil sensitive, the .450 Bushy has a lot more going for it in terms of versatility on a wider variety of game. Just as accurate and harder hitting with the same range potential.

I would opt for a 20 ga slug before the Legend.

 

[beeenbag]

I think too many people look at new rounds as a replacement for their stock or as a “one round do it all” type thing. I literally just told my wife laying here in bed, “ah a 350 legend thread, good read even though I have no need for it what so ever and have ARs chambered in just about everything, something about this chambering just interest me”. What happened to just enjoying things that may not be the bread and butter of your equipment?

 

[Hookeye]

I'm no sissy.
But decent oomph w lower recoil sounds good, esp as one ages and can't guess how they'll wake up the next morning LOL
Not really an AR fan, thought a RAR in .450 BM would be fun.
And yeah, it sounds more fun than one in .350 Legend (to me).

But under 150 yards, it just makes sense. Esp if you have it for smaller stature hunters.
Not saying it's a girly cartridge, just saying it might be more polite than the .450.

If I get one it will be in an AR pistol.

 

[Hookeye]

The legality of PCR came about IMHO due to the advancements in shotgun slugs.
Gotta remember DNR stuff is not just game management.........it's people management.
And a lot of folks are not gun people, even if they buy hunting licenses.

John Q public seems to be cool with PCR.

Whether or not that is a sales job, or based on ballistics............depends on who you ask..........it's still good.

Hunting numbers are dropping.
Many an old fart was THRILLED with PCR here, dumped their old slug guns and bought ,44 mags.
It was the "new thing".
The lack of recoil was a HUGE selling point.

Well there was that and the cowboy movie thing about lever guns.

LGS couldn't keep a Marlin .44 mag in the rack.
Dedicated slug shotguns...........are dinosaurs here (Indiana).
The combo pack shotguns still sell, usually to folks new to hunting (one gun for everything).

 

[someguy2800]

I'm no sissy.
But decent oomph w lower recoil sounds good, esp as one ages and can't guess how they'll wake up the next morning LOL
Not really an AR fan, thought a RAR in .450 BM would be fun.
And yeah, it sounds more fun than one in .350 Legend (to me).

But under 150 yards, it just makes sense. Esp if you have it for smaller stature hunters.
Not saying it's a girly cartridge, just saying it might be more polite than the .450.

If I get one it will be in an AR pistol.

Here in Minnesota the northern half of the state is rifle zone with no restrictions, but the southern half of the state has to use shotguns, muzzle loaders, or handguns. An AR15 with a brace is legal as a pistol, so if I lived in southern Minnesota I would absolutely be getting a 12” 350 legend upper to go on my AR pistol for deer season. One of the reasons I got my 357 max contender pistol was so I would have a legal weapon if I ever decide to hunt south of the rifle boundary or in another state.

 

[Buckeye63]

It ticks no boxes for me and I hunt a straight wall state.

I’m trying to envision a scenario that this cartridge is a solution to. There are better options for pigs especially since nearly all the good places for pig hunting are not straight wall states.

Unless you are really recoil sensitive, the .450 Bushy has a lot more going for it in terms of versatility on a wider variety of game. Just as accurate and harder hitting with the same range potential.

I would opt for a 20 ga slug before the Legend.

I can hunt with just about anything in TN .. I like compact like bolt guns and leverguns .. Over the years I found the 30-30 will do anything and everything that I need .. it just works ... dang good ..
As for the 450 BM in boltgun it really intrested me .. but the recoil that I read about .. I felt it was not needed ... So I picked up a Ruger American Ranch in 7.62x39 ... With the right bullet .. It will work .. With less fuss ...

As for the 350 L ... In the American Ranch , compact lightweight and powerful.. Without the fuss ...

I will see how the 350 L does this years .. If it takes off , like I think it will , I will make room in my safe ...

 

[mcb]

Somewhat tangentially related... Are there any slug only for deer hunting states left? Illinois? Iowa?

350 Legend seems like an AR specific cartridge to me much in the same manner as 450 Bushmaster. I see lots of the Ruger bolt guns in 450 Bushmaster but for me if I wanted a big bore bolt gun 450 Bushmaster would not be a cartridge I would be think about. Clearly JMHO.

In the AR platform 350 Legend has a significant capacity advantage over 450 bushmaster. A 20rd 556 magazine holds 6-7 rounds of 450 Bushmaster but correctly ribbed it will hold 20rds of 350 Legend. A 30rd magazine will only holds 11-13 rounds of 450 BM (assuming you can get it to feed) while properly made 350 Legend mag again will hold 30 rds of 350 Legend. Probably not a big consideration for deer hunting but maybe a factor in hog control in heavy populated areas or other application of the cartridge.

 

[CraigC]

I very much like the .450BM and its capability but let's get real, it's a .45 caliber rifle cartridge that can match the .454's performance out of a rifle length barrel. While most people are zapping deer with high velocity 200's, with the right bullet, there's nothing you couldn't hunt with it. So one could use a lot less as a deer rifle and the .350 fills that gap.

 

[Buckeye63]

When Marlin 1895G was first introduced, I had one .. prepay , preorder... I loaded up it up to its full potential... I used heavy weights 400gr to 450gr .... Beat myself up ..

But I tried something different. the Speer 300gr .. Its listed as a HP .. But its not . Ot had just a small dimple.. No hollow point ..
I loaded it up with a healthy dose of H4198 and got over 2400 fps , out of that short barrel ... . That is a tuff bullet .... So heavy bullets was not needed

Im sure the 450 BM with modern powders and bullet construction would do the same..

 

[earlthegoat2]

Somewhat tangentially related... Are there any slug only for deer hunting states...,,

Dunno but there are shotgun slug only areas on Ft Stewart which I hunt often so slug guns are still relevant to me.

 

[horsemen61]

I ordered 2 boxes of their fmj load for $8 box the brass is worth that alone

 

[Varminterror]

I very much like the .450BM and its capability but let's get real, [...] one could use a lot less as a deer rifle and the .350 fills that gap.

I took liberty by snipping out some of the supportive detail, to which I fully agree, because this largely describes my sentiment.

We have AR compatible cartridges on the market in rimfire 17 and 22calibers, and centerfire 17, 20, 22, 243, 25, 264, 277, 30, 45, and 50 calibers... The performance of the blowback, pistol cartridge 9, 40, and 45’s, but they’re really not in the same class. Guys have been making 357 Max AR/350 Legend type cartridges for years, and there’s a plenty big gap for a 33 or 35 cal factory entry in there, or two.

I’ve been a fan of the Max for many years, and have a handful of years into a love affair with a .357/44 B&D which runs only about 150fps behind the Legend, but from a 7.5” revolver. I’ve speculated (whimsically or foolishly, take your pick) about building a Marlin 1894 or Ruger M77/357 into a 357/44 B&D to have the ballistic performance nearly identical to the Legend. Why would I want such a thing?The deer killing power there is exactly in the groove for most deer hunters - fast and flat enough to do the job at 250, but hard thumping on the business end, without the punishing hammer on the shooter. I’m not a huge fan of loading the 458soc or 450bm with lighter bullets, despite the extra speed, for the relatively poor sectional density. I’d love to have a 200-220grn entry in the Legend, if I find myself putting one together.