.350 Legend - .358 cast bullets yay or nay?

[Tallinar]

I’m considering getting into .350 Legend, but have one reservation.

One of the things attractive to me about .350 Legend as a reloader is the prospect of being able to cook up loads using the same cast bullets as what I might load in .357 Magnum or .38 Special. However, it sounds like .350 Legend was designed with some slightly ambiguous groove diameter specs, and I can’t quite tell for sure if it should be thought of as a .355/9mm or .357 groove diameter.

My intent would be to use .358 cast bullets. In theory, this seems like it should work fine for the same reasons that it works fine to run a 9mm/.357 Magnum convertible Blackhawk. The nominal bore diameter is basically the same. However, with the shape of the .350 Legend case mouth, I wonder if I would encounter chambering issues, even if the gun would otherwise digest .358 just fine.

Can anyone speak more to this now that this cartridge has been around a little longer and the reloading community has had some time to tinker?

 

[BWS]

The very first thing that gets done on any rig that comes through here.... with the idea that cast is on the menu.

Check and record actual chamber neck ID.

Also,every rig here gets it's own load data booklet. The above neck ID is at the top,right next to model and chambering info.

"It happens" is one of those statements that sorta indicates an oops of some sort? But in the case of cast vs factory chambered necks.... it happens quite frequently that the optimum bullet fit,and dimensions,when combined with certain factory brass.... that there's going to be some issues with a too tight overall condition.

Trying to resist going off into the weeds on this.... I use half ball(vs full round) small hole gages. With "touch" they'll also find out of round necks vs gage pins. This latter comment is also an "it happens". There's more to it but we'd have to fire up the weedwacker,haha.

Goodluck with your project.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The very first thing that gets done on any rig that comes through here.... with the idea that cast is on the menu.

Check and record actual chamber neck ID.

Also,every rig here gets it's own load data booklet. The above neck ID is at the top,right next to model and chambering info.

"It happens" is one of those statements that sorta indicates an oops of some sort? But in the case of cast vs factory chambered necks.... it happens quite frequently that the optimum bullet fit,and dimensions,when combined with certain factory brass.... that there's going to be some issues with a too tight overall condition.

Trying to resist going off into the weeds on this.... I use half ball(vs full round) small hole gages. With "touch" they'll also find out of round necks vs gage pins. This latter comment is also an "it happens". There's more to it but we'd have to fire up the weedwacker,haha.

Goodluck with your project.

What he said. Plus, if I were considering buying into a new cartridge platform, especially one whose primary audience is the Stoner action, with the intent of using cast almost exclusively, I would think hard about only getting a bolt action, break action or lever action - IOW, not a modified Stoner self loader.

It’s my impression that would decomplicate a lot of issues.

I would also probably invest in a Lee 9mm sizing kit for the APP and be prepared to resize my .358/.359” cast to .355/.356”. Just in case.

 

[Tallinar]

if I were considering buying into a new cartridge platform, especially one whose primary audience is the Stoner action, with the intent of using cast almost exclusively, I would think hard about only getting a bolt action, break action or lever action - IOW, not a modified Stoner self loader.

I should have mentioned that my use case would be with a bolt action rifle only. I am not interested in trying out cast bullets in an AR platform of any kind.

 

[BWS]

"One"(of a few) area with cast bolt guns that only you can truly answer,and it's a choice.... which is definitely a good/great thing;

Answer to yourself what your tolerance level is for jammed seating depths..... one very important reason is case shortening with reduced loads. If it's a dedicated X ring killer.... your case "management" hinges on jam. That's not to say there aren't workarounds. It means the case equilibrium,or equanimity has a direct connection to jam. In the perfect environment,obliterating X's.... I want zero case setback,and as close to zero case shoulder movement... during or after the fact(sizing op)... as possible. That quite frequently only comes at higher pressure/velocity than conventional dogma.

If out in the field.... whatcha gonna do when you invariably stick a bullet(extracting loaded round)because it's a hard jam? Only you can make that call. Field use vs X ring.... both have their issues.

Good luck with your project. And don't let some failure in this process stop you.... not sayin,it's ALL been done but,enough folks have been down this road that there is a "path".

Edit, (extracting loaded round)

 

[AJC1]

The 350 was nominalized around 9mm bullets so .356 is normally the cast size. The 360 buckhammer uses standard 357 bore diameter. They did the same thing for 357 sig, just a 9mm bullet.

 

[mavracer]

It's gonna be a resounding maybe. Chamber dimensions vary a little.

 

[MEHavey]

Not to worry
Cast sized 357 works fine, as does 358 if the brass/chamber will accommodate.
See: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...egend-advice&p=4816659&viewfull=1#post4816659
Both at MOA+ loads out of an AR
Bolt action is a piece of cake.

 

[243winxb]

https://winchester.com/Blog/2019/09/Winchesters-New-350-Legend-Ammo
Winchester has it wrong on the 357 mag. I guess they never slugged a barrel.
Midwayusa lists .355" & .357" jacketed bullet diameters for the Legend. The diameter of the expander that comes with the RCBS STEEL 3 die set may give a clue as to bullet dia.

What powder to fill the case with? IMR 4227 starting load @ Hodgdon?

 

[MEHavey]

Norma 200 is the magic powder for the 350L
RL-7 is close second.

 

[mrawesome22-250]

If they"ll chamber, they'll shoot. Whether they chamber or not will depend on the gun.

https://winchester.com/Blog/2019/09/Winchesters-New-350-Legend-Ammo View attachment 1170096
Winchester has it wrong on the 357 mag. I guess they never slugged a barrel.
Midwayusa lists .355" & .357" jacketed bullet diameters for the Legend. The diameter of the expander that comes with the RCBS STEEL 3 die set may give a clue as to bullet dia.

What powder to fill the case with? IMR 4227 starting load @ Hodgdon?

Winchester has it correct. SAAMI groove spec for 357Rem is .355" + .004". Spec for 350Legend is .355" + .002".

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

"One"(of a few) area with cast bolt guns that only you can truly answer,and it's a choice.... which is definitely a good/great thing;

Answer to yourself what your tolerance level is for jammed seating depths..... one very important reason is case shortening with reduced loads. If it's a dedicated X ring killer.... your case "management" hinges on jam. That's not to say there aren't workarounds. It means the case equilibrium,or equanimity has a direct connection to jam. In the perfect environment,obliterating X's.... I want zero case setback,and as close to zero case shoulder movement... during or after the fact(sizing op)... as possible. That quite frequently only comes at higher pressure/velocity than conventional dogma.

If out in the field.... whatcha gonna do when you invariably stick a bullet(extracting loaded round)because it's a hard jam? Only you can make that call. Field use vs X ring.... both have their issues.

Good luck with your project. And don't let some failure in this process stop you.... not sayin,it's ALL been done but,enough folks have been down this road that there is a "path".

Edit, (extracting loaded round)

Shoulder? It’s a straight wall case.

 

[BWS]

Didn't know,was speaking in general terms.... blast away,haha.

 

[Tallinar]

I'm almost tempted to wait and see if .360 Buckhammer takes off and we start seeing other rifle platforms utilizing it. I'd be interested in a Ruger American Ranch in that cartridge, but not sure how much interest there will be.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I'm almost tempted to wait and see if .360 Buckhammer takes off and we start seeing other rifle platforms utilizing it. I'd be interested in a Ruger American Ranch in that cartridge, but not sure how much interest there will be.

It’s probably going to go the way of the .357Max and .356Win. I have a HandiRifle chambered in .357Max and it’s a honey but the .444 is considerably more gun.

 

[AJC1]

It’s probably going to go the way of the .357Max and .356Win. I have a HandiRifle chambered in .357Max and it’s a honey but the .444 is considerably more gun.

I was seriously considering 360 compared to hunting for 357max or 35 rem brass... they have one at the local whalmart no ammo.... hard pass on that situation

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I was seriously considering 360 compared to hunting for 357max or 35 rem brass... they have one at the local whalmart no ammo.... hard pass on that situation

Starline has .357Max and.350L brass but they don’t even list .360BH. Probably too new.

 

[jmorris]

I dont see much problem with what you propose.

I'll admit shooting a few cast through my 357 maximum. Not a lot of point to it as I have 38 & 357 rifles too but I have done it with trailboss.

 

[AJC1]

Starline has .357Max and.350L brass but they don’t even list .360BH. Probably too new.

Never seen a Marlin in 357 max but I suggest it to them every time they ask for recomendations.

 

[mavracer]

Couple of things one if you're just trying to shoot cheap you could run 125 9mm FMJ real cheap. I shoot 147 XTP blems from Midway in my AR.
I know Missouri will size bullets to order, I'm sure others would too.

I have an American Ranch in 300 BO and almost bought another in 350 instead of building another AR.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Never seen a Marlin in 357 max but I suggest it to them every time they ask for recomendations.

If I were going to build another rimmed cartridge rifle - 360BH, 357Max, 356Win… whatever - I would probably start with a No.4 Mk.2 SMLE action and use a Savage-style barrel nut to get the headspace right. I’ve handled one done in Australia like that chambered in .35-303. My MLE .25-303 was nice but it was a little fragile.

But I’m in a selling place of life right now not a building custom rifles place.

 

[JShirley]

Couple of things one if you're just trying to shoot cheap you could run 125 9mm FMJ real cheap. I shoot 147 XTP blems from Midway in my AR.
I know Missouri will size bullets to order, I'm sure others would too.

I have an American Ranch in 300 BO and almost bought another in 350 instead of building another AR.

Hey, @mavracer, have you ever shot at milk jugs or any other media with those XTPs? I'm wondering if they'll hold together well enough at 2200 fps for deer...

Thanks,

John

 

[tactikel]

.358 was tight in my chamber and failed to come to battery on several occasions. I tried .357 and finally settled on .356. It functions perfectly and gives superb accuracy. Your chamber may be more forgiving, just be aware of options.

 

[mavracer]

Hey, @mavracer, have you ever shot at milk jugs or any other media with those XTPs? I'm wondering if they'll hold together well enough at 2200 fps for deer...

Thanks,

John

No I haven't. They're prolly gonna spit the jacket off but at that velocity I'd imagine they'd still penetrate OKish. If I was going to use them for deer I'd be careful about shot placement, neck shot would be lights out.

 

[garandsrus]

I have shot .359 cast bullets in my 350 Legend with no problems. As was mentioned, if it will chamber, go ahead and shoot it. Cast bullets are normally sizes .001 or .002 larger than jacketed. If a .359 bullet won’t chamber, just resize it to .358 and try again. If that doesn’t work, size to .357 and it should work. Lee makes an inexpensive push through sizing die that fits on a standard reloading press so it will be cheap to size the bullet done if necessary.

357 Max and 350 Legend brass is pretty easy to find.