Wolf .223 and my AR - a thought and a question.

[BryanP]

I've heard all the arguments. Wolf is crap. Wolf is just fine. Commie ammo for Commie guns, American ammo for American guns. However, with the disappearance of the less expensive brass-cased surplus I had a thought. I figured I should post it here before it gets lonely and leaves.

The main complaints I have heard about Wolf steel-cased ammo in AR's are:

1. The lacquer will gum up your chamber.
2. The steel cases will beat up your bolt face over time.
3. The steel cases will beat up your extractor over time.
4. The steel cases will beat up your firing pin over time.

With the lacquer coating now replaced by the new polymer coat it appears that complaint #1 has been addressed.

I was looking at AR parts and accessories the other day and realized that the cost savings of one case of ammo would pay for a replacement bolt, complete with extractor and firing pin. Two cases would save enough to pay for an entire bolt & carrier group.

So, my thought is this: Buy another bolt & bolt carrier group. Check headspace, make sure everything is fine. Designate that as the official Wolf Bolt. That way, even if complaints 2-4 turn out to be valid, by the time I get to my third case of ammo I'll be in the black again.

Is there anything missing in my logic? Are there any other problems it could cause that I'm not considering?

 

[GlocksRock]

Just shoot the wolf through it, and in the unlikely event that you do need to replace a part you will be able to afford it, and with the savings in ammo, buy more ammo. If it aint' broke, don't fix it.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I prefer not to shoot Wolf ammo out of my AR.

Thats not to say I haven't in the past, just would rather use brass cased ammo.

 

[BryanP]

Thats not to say I haven't in the past, just would rather use brass cased ammo.

So would I, and have so far. However, the South African & such that I was buying at gun shows for $17 per bag of 100 has disappeared. I haven't seen any of it for the last half dozen gun shows I have attended. I still have about 500 rounds or so floating around, but it won't last.

My main question is this - does anyone know of anything other than the bolt face & extractor, both of which are easily replaced for very little money, that could negatively affect my AR?

 

[ocabj]

I can't imagine how steel cases would affect the firing pin considering the firing pin only strikes the primer. As far as the extractor, you should always have a spare extractor in your repair kit. While I don't shoot Wolf centerfire, I don't think you should worry about it much.

 

[jobu07]

the South African & such that I was buying at gun shows for $17 per bag of 100 has disappeared.

I hear ya man. I loved that stuff. But until somethign cheaper comes along, wolf it is!

 

[Mannlicher]

I know lots of folks use Wolf and love it. I just won't run any steel case ammo through a weapon that was designed for brass cartridges.

 

[444]

Forget about the bolt, you will never need it.

What you need to start saving for is a barrel.
Why ?
Because you will be shooing far more than ever and evenutally, it will wear out.

 

[jefnvk]

From what I understand, the steel cased is nearly as soft as brass. Could be wrong, though.

 

[swingset]

That's correct - the steel in Wolf cases is very soft. Maybe a tad harder than brass, but not by much.

And, the polymer stuff (which is all that's out there now) makes this a non-issue. Less metal makes contact with your chamber than with a brass shell. What's hitting the chamber walls? Steel? No, Polymer coating. Softer yet than brass. Think about that.

And, if this hard steel case (which really isn't) really tears up extractors, I'd never know it. I have shot cases and cases and cases of Wolf through my Ar's, and I'm still going on the original extractors with no visible sign of wear or damage.

Even if I do break an extractor, big whoop. Not a big fix, not an expensive fix.

Wolf is fine, shoot it, enjoy it, screw the naysayers.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Sorry guys but Wolf sux...

! It is not because of the steel case though. The crap is impotent compared to the other ammo I have shot through my Bushie M4gery ...
It does not shoot well for me past 25 yards or so. I base this opinion on a simple test I did. 55 gr fmj Winchester white box value packs vs Wolf 55 gr fmj laquered case. I took random rounds from a few different boxes ,and loaded them into seperate magazines, then shot for group size. I did not measure the groups but only observed them. I noticed a much more," snappy", recoil from the Winchester. It was atleast half the size of the Wolf. Now I hear the polymer Wolf is better but I could only get some of that for my AK clone, or I would have checked it out also ...

Having said that, for cheap plinking ammo or just go bang ammo, Wolf really can't be beat...

PS ..Oh yeah, Wolf ammo may be hard on your extractor but I have fired over 700-900 rounds of it in .223(all laquered ) with maybe 3 ammo failers(all duds), and no ill effects on extraction with my rifle yet.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

wolf ammo wont work in my ARs

at least 3 out of 10 shots would not extract properly

 

[50 Freak]

I agree Wolf sucks.

Dirty ammo
Very innaccurate

I prefer Federal XM193, but I can buy 1000 rounds of wolf for the price of 500 rounds of the XM193. I keep the XM193 for competition, SHTF ammo. But I plink with the Wolf. Can't beat their prices.

 

[jefnvk]

I prefer Federal XM193, but I can buy 1000 rounds of wolf for the price of 500 rounds of the XM193. I keep the XM193 for competition, SHTF ammo. But I plink with the Wolf. Can't beat their prices

That is probably the best way of doing it.

To me, the extra trigger time is much more important than the potential 1" better groupings.

 

[c_yeager]

I know lots of folks use Wolf and love it. I just won't run any steel case ammo through a weapon that was designed for brass cartridges.

AK and SKS rifles were designed for brass cartridges...

 

[jobu07]

AK and SKS rifles were designed for brass cartridges...

I was thinking that, but didn't want to open my yap trap until I heard it from someone else too. Lotta surplus x39 ammo out there that is corrisive and brass cased, true?

 

[mtnbkr]

$17 per bag of 100 has disappeared

At $7.73 per 40, WWB at Wallyworld is only a couple bucks more per 100. Actually, it's about the cheapest thing readily available other than stuff like Wolf.

I really want to use Wolf in my AR, but it just won't function with it. I even loaded a mag with Wolf on top and brass cased WWB in the last half, it jammed every other round until it hit the WWB, then it functioned fine.

Chris

 

[BryanP]

At $7.73 per 40, WWB at Wallyworld is only a couple bucks more per 100.

$199/1000 Lake City from Ammoman (delivered)
$193/1000 WWB from Wal Mart pre-tax (using your quoted price)
$212/1000 WWB from Wal Mart with TN sales tax
$170/1000 Surplus I was buying at gun shows before it dried up.
$129/1000 Wolf from Ammoman (delivered)

I used Ammoman as my example because he factors shipping into his cost, making it an easy apples-apples comparison.

Heck, I don't even know if Wolf will run in my AR. I have yet to encounter ammo that wouldn't run through mine yet, but you never know. The point may be moot. I'll stop by the local gun shop soon and pick up a few boxes to test with.

So far nobody has come back with anything that could be harmed by Wolf other than the extractor & bolt face, both of which are easily replaced for less than the cost difference of one case.

 

[halvey]

Shoot what you want, but I've seen "guns that never jam" jam with Wolf.

 

[TC66]

Another thing the wolf ammo will do is the steel cases will over time ding up your chamber. Everything else has been pretty much mentioned except this one last thing.

If you read the warrantys on most AR's it clearly states that any damage from firing steel cased ammo will not be covered.

*************************************************
The following items are specifically excluded from coverage under warranty:

Damage resulting from the use of ANY imported, handloaded, factory re-manufactured, or non-brass cased ammunition.

*************************************************
There are several other things that are also not covered but I just wanted to point out about the ammo types.

Think about it before you void your warranty.

 

[Master Blaster]

Reasonably priced surplus high quality reloadable brass.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_NATO__223_SS109.html

 

[halvey]

If you read the warrantys on most AR's it clearly states that any damage from firing steel cased ammo will not be covered.

In fairness though, doesn't ANYTHING void the warranty? I don't have an AR, but I know all my pistol manuals say any reloads voids the warranty.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Wolf is cheap, dirty, smells bad, looks bad, people hate it, it makes A-Merc look like Norma, isn't made in America, but rather by children in Russian sweatshops (I think). What's not to like?

Seems like nobody here in Oklahoma City carries Wolf anymore though--they all carry either Sapsan or Brown Bear (same stuff, different box... headstamps are identical). Granted, it doesn't smell quite as bad; but I like a picture of a wolf on a black background better than a bear on a sickly green background. *shrug* Call me silly, but I miss it.

 

[BryanP]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_NATO__223_SS109.html

Ooooh. Now that's what I'm talking about.

 

[TC66]

I know what you are saying there is a lot of stuff that voids the warranty but when there is good Mil-Surplus ammo like XM193 or the British (Radaway Green) ammo from AIM that is very resonably priced.

Really I don't blame them for saying reloads void the warranty. You get someone who is new to it or does not know what they are doing and they over charge the round. Why should the manufacturer pay for that? I reload and I am very careful about it so I am not real concerned about that ever voiding my warranty.

If you think about it Mil-Surplus is really pretty hot and if you stay at that level or lower there will be no questions about it. But if you go out with the intent to load a round that will burn up the barrel again I don't blame them for voiding the warranty.

But shooting steel cases will show on the bolt and chamber of the rifle. Why take a chance?

1000 LC Once Fired Brass $18.00
4 LBS WC844 $36.00 = 1120 Rounds of ammo
1000 CCI Primers $16.00
1000 Winchester FMJ Bullets $34.00

With a $118.65 Lee Progressive Loading Press it will take you 2 hours to load. That is what rainy days are made for. Well that and cleaning your guns.

1000 Rounds Reloaded Ammo $104 and it will be far superior to Wolf any day.