Wonderings about the AR-10/SR-25 series

[Nolo]

-Since it has a significantly long recoil spring, is it (the 7.62N version) controllable on full-auto?
-Is it reliable? More so or less so than the M16/M4 series?
-Why doesn't it have a forward assist? Or am I just not noticing something?
-Why doesn't the US Military use this a as a standard issue rifle? (I know the historical reasons, but it seems like this is a really good rifle in a caliber that has been hard to tame, but it seems to do it, I also know why we don't up and adopt it, because of 5.56 standardization, this is really a rhetorical question)

Anyway, give me your thoughts on the AR-10/SR-25 rifle series.

 

[Evil Monkey]

Since it has a significantly long recoil spring, is it (the 7.62N version) controllable on full-auto?

It's a semi auto only weapon.

Is it reliable? More so or less so than the M16/M4 series?

It should be the same. It's the same gun in a different caliber. I've heard the SR25 is a gift from god, right down to it's a complete piece of junk.

Why doesn't it have a forward assist? Or am I just not noticing something?

It is highly unlikely to see heavy use like an assault rifle.

Why doesn't the US Military use this a as a standard issue rifle? (I know the historical reasons, but it seems like this is a really good rifle in a caliber that has been hard to tame, but it seems to do it, I also know why we don't up and adopt it, because of 5.56 standardization, this is really a rhetorical question)

You should not even ask that question. In fact, I advise you to delete that portion of your post.

I'm ITCHING for 223 vs 308 discussion now. lol

But seriously, you have to realize that the SR25/XM110 is a CREW-SERVED Sniper Rifle. It's what they call an "inorganic" weapon.

 

[Nolo]

It's a semi auto only weapon.

I know, I wanted to know whether that would allow it to be controllable on full-auto, whether the rifle had it or not. I think the AR-10 was full-auto, no?

 

[Baba Louie]

Yes, Stoner's original AR-10 was a select fire weapon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-10

 

[Titan6]

-Since it has a significantly long recoil spring, is it (the 7.62N version) controllable on full-auto?

-

Not having fired one full auto I don't rightly know. I do know that the round is considered a light machine gun round and that M240 machine gun that I have shot quite lot of uses it. The M240 is very controllable and quite accurate. But the M240 has a bipod, a bolt almost a foot long and weighs more than twice as much. I can't imagine shooting such a big round out of such a small gun on full auto with much accuracy.

Is it reliable?

Like all military style guns depends upon the maker. My DPMS is very reliable.

More so or less so than the M16/M4 series?

Pretty much the same (see above)

-Why doesn't it have a forward assist?

The new ones do. The original M16 did not have one either. Major design flaw.

-Why doesn't the US Military use this a as a standard issue rifle?

Why should we? Despite all the contrary THR threads there is nothing wrong with 5.56. The .308 might have more stopping power but at quite a high cost in logisitics and even fire power. Going into a fire fight I would rather have 420 rounds of 5.56 than 200 rounds of .308. There are some better choices out there but it is a good one.

it seems like this is a really good rifle

It is a really good rifle. Were it just me at the end of the world I would take it over the M4. For military use I prefer the M4.

 

[Float Pilot]

I had a chance to fire lots of rounds through a Sudanise (made by Artillerie Inrichtingen (AI) in Holland and not Armalite) issued AR-10 back in the 1980s. It was fairly accurate considering that the rifle was pretty beat up. The magazines were the old waffle side pattern. They had almost no finish left on them from years of being abused in a sandy climate.

I also fired a few magazines on full auto. Even using short burst it was pretty hard (almost impossible) to keep under control due to its light weight and very light forward weight.

I did not have any malfunctions, but I had to clean it before firing it, since the guy to whom it was issued had not done so for a long, long, long, time. Plus I was using nice clean US issue ammo.

Remember that the real original AR-10 (1956 to 1960) predates the AR-15 /M-16. The original AR-10s had a trigger shaped cocking lever inside the handguard area. There was no apparent need for a forward assist at the time, due to the limited numbers sold to various military units around the world and due to the fact that the 7.62 cartirdge cycles with more force.
However the Dutch made AR-10s did eventually develop some forward assist assemblies. I never saw one personally.

Training is something of an issue with the forward assist. As a Law Enforcement instructor we always taught the shooters that if something does not want to go into the chamber, do not try to jam it in there was a machanical jack. Eject the offending round and move to the next one. But there are times when it is a handy thing to have on the side of your rifle

The forward assist was not always on the M-16 either. In 1960 Gen LeMAy ordered the first 8,000 M-16s (AR-15s) for the S.P. s in SAC. A year or two later the Air force bought several thousand more. More were send to South Viet Nam for trials and use by their troops.
The Air Force NEVER bought any M-16A1s with the forward assist. Within the last few years they bought some FN manufactured M-16A2s and now M-4s. The Air Force also listened to the suggestion of some clerk and they decided to modify thousands of very old M-16s (most with AR-15 markings) into a sort-of A2 configuration. Doing reserv duty in my last branch or the service, I personally had to ruin a perfectly good 3 digit numbered AR-15 by installing junky aftermarket (lowest bidder) parts.

The Army contract guns (yes they got the M-16 after the Air force) included the forward assist in the M-16A1 version. They started gofing around with that around 1963 as the XM16E1 and by 1967 decided to adopt it as the standard rifle when the SPIW weapons system never panned out.

 

[Titan6]

There was no apparent need for a forward assist at the time, due to the limited numbers sold to various military units around the world and due to the fact that the 7.62 cartirdge cycles with more force.

There is a lot more to it than that.

Training is something of an issue with the forward assist. As a Law Enforcement instructor we always taught the shooters that if something does not want to go into the chamber, do not try to jam it in there was a machanical jack. Eject the offending round and move to the next one. But there are times when it is a handy thing to have on the side of your rifle

For LEO operations this is likely true. I imagine the number of LEO encounters when an AR expends more than 30 rounds in an engagement are few and far between. For military operations by the time you load your fourth or fifth magazine in five minutes and have been running and crawling around in the desert (or Jungle ATCMB) it is touch or go whether or not that thing will go into battery. That is when the forward assist is most helpful. Otherwise you would be sitting there trying to figure out what to do next.

 

[Float Pilot]

For military operations

Been there, done that, and have the t-shirts from 3 different branches over 30 years.
The only M-16 variant I ever had problems with was a new FN made A2. All the ones my unit obtained had overly thick coatings of whatever coating stuff FN used. So the bolt carriers dragged. Requiring the continual use of the forward assist. I had to emery cloth /wire brush the interior of the receivers on all 80 of them during a deployment. The second worse were the M-4s we were later issued.

The most reliable M16A1 that the Army issued me was made by the Hydramatic division of GM. The next best were the Colts I was issued in other units. I NEVER had to use the forward assit other than during pre-deployment Miles exercises while using blank adapters. Of course the fact that I brought my own cleaning supplies and knew how to use them made a difference.