Won't shoot gansta' style

[dashootist]

Brand new Model 14 shoots fine upright, turned right side down, and even upside down, everytime.

But it doesn't shoot turned left side down, like a gansta'. The cylinder rotates fine and locks up. Trigger pulls all the way back. But hammer won't fall. Let go of trigger, pull it again, same thing, cylinder rotates fine, trigger pulls all the way back, but hammer won't fall.

I think revolver should be able to shoot in any orientation. Right?

More info:
With the side plate off, the action works fine with the revolver left side down. Put the side plate back on, and it jams.

Even more info:
I didn't tighten the side plate screw enough. After tightening the heck out of these screws, it got a lot better, but jam still happens occasionally--like one out of 50.

 

[dashootist]

Not sure if springs have anything to do. I installed Wilson Combat main spring and rebound spring.

 

[okespe04]

yeah that is not normal. Recheck your work. For now you get an E for effort but to up your grade the thing has to work.

 

[goodtime]

Sounds like a gun with class!!

Jokes aside, though, that shouldn't happen. I'm no 'smith, so I can't offer any advice, here.

 

[hardworker]

Gravity is probably pulling the cylinder just enough out of position that it locks the gun up.

 

[Sniper X]

Gravity is what I think too, Take half the rounds out of the cyl and try it....

 

[PRM]

Re-check the work previously done. You should not have to take half the rounds out to make it work (S&W never designed a gun that way). Nor should the guns orientation affect its functionality. Something is not exactly right.

 

[foghornl]

Something here is "just about a half a bubble off level"...it SHOULD fire from any position (disregarding jokes about gangsta-style cap-bustin')

 

[BCRider]

The long blocking link that is the first thing you see when removing the side plate may well be sloppy enough a fit that when on its side it sits in a way that jams things up as well. It's not the sort of thing you'd have in the gun during a side plate off test since it has to have the sideplate groove to sit correctly.

Frankly I think the ideal of the cylinder falling to the one side is a bit of a reach. They are typically held in place to fairly tight tolerances. It would be easy to test though. Also did you try it in SA on its side? If it still fails to fire try it on its side but reach forward with a finger to push the cylinder upwards. Just keep it back out of the way of the front of the cylinder to avoid the side blast. If it's the cylinder falling to one side lifting it back up should allow you to drop the hammer. If it's an internal thing then you'll need to look back under the "hood".

 

[rcmodel]

I agree it has nothing to do with gravity pulling the cylinder off center far enough to lock up the gun. That simply can't happen unless the gun is totally sloppy loose worn out.

I also agree with BCRIDER's assessment that it most likely is the safety hammer block bar falling over out of the sideplate slot when the gun is held with the left side down.

Nothing else in there should have enough free movement to move by itself from gravity.
All other parts are spring loaded by one spring or another, and just can't move around of their own weight.

rc

 

[dashootist]

No, not the cylinder. Took the cylinder out, pull back on the thumb piece, and still jams.

I took the hammer block out. Side plate closes much easier without it. Does seem like it was the culprit.
My buddy says throw the hammer block away. Is the gun drop-safe without the hammer block?

I have another theory though. Inside the rebound spring, there's a pin to stop the trigger. I wonder if this pin is too long. With the sideplate off, the rebound slide has side-to-side freeplay, and it's enough to allow the trigger to be pulled back just a tiny bit more. With the sideplate on, the rebound slide can't move side-to-side when the pin stops the trigger before it clears the sear. Just a theory.

 

[BCRider]

There's a lot of parts in there and I'm not sure which pin around the rebound block you're specifically referring to.

Besides, all the parts inside are rather carefully controlled and don't flop around from gravity. And if they did and you can see something lifting if you hold it down does this keep the trigger from releasing the hammer?

 

[Old Fuff]

If I understand correctly, the hammer is at full-cock, but won't fall when you pull the trigger.

If this is true, I suspect the pin inside the rebound slide spring is causing the trouble. Remove it and see what happens.

My buddy says throw the hammer block away. Is the gun drop-safe without the hammer block?

Your buddy is brain-dead. The hammer block came about in 1945 after a sailor dropped a .38 Victory model revolver and it went off. If the part wasn't critical to the gun's safety it would'n be in there. Also unlike the pin in the rebound slide, it has no affect on the trigger's travel.

 

[dashootist]

There's a lot of parts in there and I'm not sure which pin around the rebound block you're specifically referring to.

This pin is inside the rebound spring, and one can hear the pin rattle inside the spring if gun is shaken. I believe SW only put this pin on target revolvers.

Your buddy is brain-dead. The hammer block came about in 1945 after a sailor dropped a .38 Victory model revolver and it went off.

From what I can see, the rebound slide would stop the hammer from moving forward in the event of a drop. Also, in Jerry Miculek DVD, he said some gunsmith leave the hammer block out after a trigger job but he prefers to leave it in there.

 

[rcmodel]

The early gun that killed the sailer had a rebound slide, the hammer pin or rebound slide failed, and it fired and killed him.

Listen to Old Fuff and leave the dang hammer block in the gun!!!!

Take the trigger stop pin out of the rebound slide spring and see if that fixes it.

A spec of dirt gets in the way of the pin or it is too long in certain positions and the gun won't fire.

S&W stopped using them years ago in target revolvers for that reason. And they never used them in cop guns to start with for the same reason.

rc

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Too bad they don't make Glocks that won't fire "gangsta'"

 

[BCRider]

This pin is inside the rebound spring, and one can hear the pin rattle inside the spring if gun is shaken. I believe SW only put this pin on target revolvers.

That would explain my confusion. None of my S&W wheelguns have that pin. Just the spring.

 

[dashootist]

Problem solved!

The pin inside the rebound spring has to go in a certain way. One end of the pin is flat; the other end is rounded. The inside of the rebound slide appears to have a dint for the rounded end of the pin. I must have inserted the flat end instead. After inserting the proper end, revolver shoots fine in any orientation, even gangsta'.

I kept the pin because someone said it improves accuracy by limiting travel after sear break. I shoot so bad I need every advantage I can get.

 

[okespe04]

A+ Nice work .

 

[BCRider]

I kept the pin because someone said it improves accuracy by limiting travel after sear break. I shoot so bad I need every advantage I can get.

Ooooo..... something new to try since I don't have those pins.

If it's just a travel limit pin I can't see anything wrong with rounding off both ends. LIkely one end is flat because that's the end that the smith at the factory trimmed with a file or grinder to set the length for your gun. But now that it's set for length at least rounding the corners of the flat end would help it to skip over the spring coils if the coils are slightly out of alignment.

I'm not sure it will do much for accuracy as if you're doing the right job of holding the gun and only moving the trigger finger and you're "Zen'ed" into your shooter's trance it shouldn't matter. But I can see it being faster for speed events such as the Speed Steel shoots I use my revolvers in. I'll have to check and see just how much over travel there actually is. I didn't think there was much at all from what I remember.

 

[Old Fuff]

The hole in the rebound slide used to be drilled, so since drills have a pointed front end the hole ended up pointed at the end also...

Now with MIM parts I'm not sure, but if I get a chance I'll look...

I have yet to find a factory pin that did anything constructive, as they're always too short. My own pins were larger to get a sliding fit inside the spring without binding, and of course pointed at the front. The back was flat, to provide maximum surface to bear against the recoil spring stud. Break the corners, yes - but don't round the end. The important thing is to make the pin too long, and then SLOWLY shorten it to a perfect fit. Then it works like it's supposed to. Obviously S&W can't take the time to do things this way. When called for they drop in a pin, and away the gun goes...