WooHoo! Got my first batch of reloading done! Some questions.....

[derrinx]

After waiting 8 months for a brownells backorder, I ordered some SR primers from Midway and got crankin.

Have about 350 rounds of once fired REM UMC BRASS.
Hornady kit, hornady case trimmer, RCBS FL rifle dies, CFE 223 powder.

Loading for my AR15, more or less plinking rounds before I get really into accuracy

Questions:
1. Was having a hard time trimming the brass to 1.750". I'm guessing my technique on the hornady trimmer just sucked, as I got progressively more consistent.
2. Was having a hard time getting the powder throw to meter consistent amounts of powder. Was throwing anywhere from 26.4 to 27.0 grains of CFE 223. Is that just the nature of powder throws and if I want more accuracy I have to use the trickler?
3. Most important Question: I was having a REALLY hard time seating non boat tail style projectiles in the charged cases. Seated 80 bullets and damaged 4 cases in the beginning. Did I miss a step when I resized? Is resizing supposed to bell out the case mouth at all? I figured out a technique of tapping the press to get the bullet to start belling out the mouth and then drive it all the way to 2.20" O.L. But I didn't like doing that, it doesn't seem proper to me. I have about 400 non boat tail projectiles which I don't want to all be this time consuming. Boat tail projectiles go right on in, no issues at all. I haven't broken any more cases since I developed a technique, but it is still very time consuming. Thoughts?

Did 100 boat tails and 80 FMJ SP, have about another 160 to go tomorrow. Really enjoyed the experience. Case prep took forever because I was taking so much time double and triple checking every step since it was my first time.

 

[plmitch]

1. You can only get better at it. Press on.
2. It’s hard to say what combination of operator, equipment and powder is the culprit. Might be all.
3. I’ve never seen this happen with flat/plain base bullets, including cast ones with or without gas checks.

 

[GJSchulze]

CFE223 is a spherical powder and such powder should meter well, as opposed to stick or extruded powder. I only reload pistol, but from what I've read here, .6 gr difference should be OK unless you're close to max, which you shouldn't be if this is your first time reloading.

When I started reloading I practiced different steps with no powder just to see what problems I might have.

The only way I've ruined pistol cases is when the bullet didn't start parallel to the case. Pistol cases are usually belled; I don't know about rifle, but someone will chime in once they wake up from their Christmas dinner stupor.

 

[45lcshooter]

1. Practice practice practice
2. Yes if you want exact amount, i would use a trickler. I still use Lee scoops, with a trickler. It takes longer, but with you want to hit a coffee mug at 500+yards, you tend to take extra time.
3.Did you Chamfer and debur the cases??????? If found out with smaller bullets will crush case faster than large bullet. But yes you did he right thin by tapping on the press to keep he bullet as straight up and down as you can. If your still getting crushed necks after Chamfer, chamfer just a bit more.


Good luck and happy shooting

 

[FastCut]

For number 3. I would also agree that you should make sure you have properly chamfered the inside of the case neck. Also, deburr outside to remove the ragged edge from trimming. I use my Dillion 1200 motorized cutter so I typically only chamfer the inside and can get away with not deburring the outside of case since this machine leaves a nice clean edge. I use a VLD chamfer which many folks will say is incorrect for your bullet types listed but since I load on a progressive for .223 I find I can more easily place the bullet on the case and get it started straighter into the case without having to struggle. You may want to consider this type of inside chamfering tool. I believe Lyman makes this with a screw driver handle if your doing it manually. I use a power drill, a piece of female threaded hexagonal standoff and the version of this tool designed to work in a LYMAN prep center as it is very fast 1-2 seconds at most for each case to properly chamfer case. If your just starting out you may want to consider a prep center, RCBS, Hornady and Lyman all produce one that does all the common operations and most come with all the tools you need to prep cases. You just need to trim to length and then finish your prep on one of these verses doing each operation manually. I prep .223 brass in lots of 1000-2000 typically so I have developed a system, expensive but very efficient. If you are only prepping a few hundred cases its not worth it for you but the Lyman center (I own it) will likely provide the best combination of tools and functions for you and later on you will learn to appreciate it when you process higher numbers of cases at one time. Best of Luck and Welcome to the world of Reloading.

 

[gahunter12]

Ques 1. I can't help you with the trimmer. I use the Lee case gage trimmer on a drill press. It's fast, and very easy. I have heard the manual trimmers are a PIA!

Ques2. CFE223 should meter very accurate. You should be within .1-.2 gr each drop with many being dead on the money. Full the measure up, and give it a few taps to settle the powder. Drop 10 charges, and dump them back in your powder measure. Then weigh 1 charge. If your good on the weight, then drop, and weigh 10 charges. This should give you a good average. If you are dropping 6.4gr, you should get 64.0gr +/- .1 - .2 gr.

Ques3. Did you chamfer/debur your case necks? If you trim, you have to c/d or you will have this problem unless you have a WFT trimmer or Dillon1200. You shouldn't have to get fancy with your movements. This could also lead to inaccurate powder drops.

Questions for you.
1. Did you make up a dummy round before loading?
2. Why did you load so many?
3. Why didn't you do a load work up?
4. How's your head space? Did you check a fired case, and adjust your FL sizing die to only bump your shoulders back .003-.004" or did you adjust the die per the instructions?

 

[ole farmerbuck]

I have and use everything you talked about. Run a bunch of powder through the powder measure before you load with it. CFE should measure pretty much the same every time. Chamfer the case mouth especially with flat base bullets. Trimming......use a little oil where the metals rub, especially on the fine adjusting nut where it spins against the trimmer.

 

[grogetr]

You may want to shoot a few to make sure they are going to work ok in your gun before you load up 500. I'm new at reloading also and made up some rounds that shot fine so made up another 150 THEN found out I had a leading problem. Just part of the learning I guess

 

[Urban_Redneck]

Re: Inconsistent powder drop. I had similar concerns starting up what I did was...

Let my electronic scale (RCBS) warm up for 15 minutes.

Completely disassembled and cleaned the powder measure and baffle (again)

Left an anti-static dryer sheet in the powder hopper overnight.

Now, all is well.

YMMV

 

[gahunter12]

You may want to shoot a few to make sure they are going to work ok in your gun before you load up 500. I'm new at reloading also and made up some rounds that shot fine so made up another 150 THEN found out I had a leading problem. Just part of the learning I guess

Exactly! That's why I ask if you did a dummy round with no powder, or primer. Also did you work up a load? I always make up a dummy round for each caliber I load for with each bullet I use. I have a clear tackle tray I keep my dummy rounds in. For .223 I have a dummy round for Hornady 55gr BT FMJ, XTreme 55gr FMJ, and Barnes 62gr TSX. Those are the 3 bullets I use in my ARs. I always have them to fall back on if need be. You can also safely use them to make sure your ammo will chamber from the mag without issue, and help with die adjustments in the future.

As for working up a load.... How do you know this load will function in your AR? It "should" work, but CFE is a slow burning powder. Hodgdon says start at 26.0gr, and max at 27.4gr for a Speer SP 55gr. If you find out after 5-10 rounds down range your AR doesn't function, or not very accurate, then you will have a lot of bullets to pull. I like to work up from the min charge with 10 rounds at each charge weight. Example: 26gr, 26.4gr, 26.8gr, 27.2 gr. look for pressure signs as you work your way up when shooting.

 

[PhotoBiker]

With the Hornady kit, I assume you have the Hornady thrower. Have you broken it down completely and degreased it thoroughly? I had to do this three times with mine. On top of that I use that anti-static spray for clothing to keep the powders from sticking due to static cling. When you empty the thrower after you are finished, did any powder stick to the insides? If so, repeat the cleaning steps.

I'd be real concerned with the seating problems. Did you measure the bullets? Is it possible they were mislabeled? There shouldn't be any excess pressure when seating a bullet, nothing should be forced in.

You seem a little bold making up so many rounds, like others have said, start with 5. Especially since this is for an AR. Pulling 4 rounds (or manually dinking with them to get them to feed and eject) is much preferred that pulling 300.

 

[conrad427]

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading!
I have a baffle in my powder measure and always work the lever EXACTLY the same way each time. It is rarely off a tenth.
I gave up using the cutter they send with the kit a long time ago and use one of the cutters designed for VLD bullets, makes seating much easier. I like to dip case mouths in graphite when I resize and it seems to help with seating as well.
Not sure why you would have problems with trimming. If all the stops are set correctly they should all end up the same, of course make sure the stops are not drifting and keep turning the case until no more cuttings are produced.

 

[derrinx]

Thanks for the responses guys.

It seems I may have started with too many rounds. Let me see if I can respond to some of the questions:

Yes I chamfered and deburred the cases that I trimmed only. I only trimmed cases that had a case length longer than 1.758". I used a standard cheap tool like this:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/143728/rcbs-chamfer-and-deburring-tool-17-to-45-caliber
It seemed to have done the job, as the case mouth were smooth and free of metal bits. I chamfered first, then deburred. I noticed that the flat based 55 grain Rem and Miway dogtown HPs were not easy to seat in cases that have been chamfered and deburred. The issue is that it is hard to get the bullet to stay upright on the case as the piston is pushing it into the die. If the bullet isn't parallel to the case, perpendicular to the ground, it doesn't seat. It's hard to get the little .224 cal bullet to stand upright as the picton is pushing up. However, the bullets require very little force to seat. The XTreme 55 Gr FMJs went right in almost with the force of gravity on the handle. I wasn't pushing the handle hard at all.

Everything is within spec. Not using the wrong bullets or anything.

The powder throw has been washed, but there is still a lot of static. I will look into the dryer sheets.

Questions for you.
1. Did you make up a dummy round before loading?
No, not sure what that is....
2. Why did you load so many?
I guess it was a mistake. But I finally had some time around Christmas and decided to do it.
3. Why didn't you do a load work up?
Are you referring to powder amounts? I started using the powder throw immediately, perhaps I should have used the trickler instead. The minimum for 55 grain spire point type bullets for CFE223 is 26.0 to a max of 27.8 grains. My powder thrower was throwing between that range.
4. How's your head space? Did you check a fired case, and adjust your FL sizing die to only bump your shoulders back .003-.004" or did you adjust the die per the instructions?
I have a headspace gauge kit as well but I thought that was only for "accuracy" rounds. I just ran them through the FL sizing die. I just want the first batch to be SAFE "plinking" rounds. Sounds like I have a lot to learn!

I'll try and get out to the range this week and shoot a few. Thanks again for the help folks.

 

[stavman11]

I have loaded THOUSANDS of FB (flat base) Bullets in .223 on my Lee Pro 1000 system, the Dogtowns being one of them

1st few Times i couldnt figure it out... they WONT F'n Stand Up like the FMJ-BT
Then i realized if I Guide it all the way Into the Die, as In Hold the Bullet straight up on the Brass until it goes into the Die, it worked like a Charm... and not a Huge Chamfer is needed but it will eliminate and Crushed Cases for sure

It does take a bit longer, but once ye get the hang of it, and SMASH yer Thumb a few Times its a breeze

I really dont do any Dumby Loads Myself.... Meaning a None Charged load to guage where to set the Bullet Depth on yer Bullet seating Die.... I load about 5 different Bullets and have a Chart going from one to another on where to adjust the Die... But Thats me

As Far as headspace Guage... very Very important to check yer Sizing Dies setup... I have the Lyman case Guage and I will check periodically as i size and de-prime my Brass... so I would check that as well... and check all the Loaded rounds also

have fun and Good Luck

 

[Vol46]

Depending on what brand of seating die you are using, you may have to " guide" the bullet into the die as Stavman suggests to minimize shaving brass or squishing cases.

If you overdid the chamfer & de-burr, you may have created a sharp edge that will shave brass more easily - just a few turns, & only needed the first time you prep a case.

A dummy round is a round with no primer or powder. Use a prepped, sized case - seat a bullet to the desired depth - write the overall length & bullet type & weight on the brass with a marking pen. Then if you load different types or weight bullets, & need to reset your die when you go back to that load, you just put the dummy round into the press, loosen the seating stem, run the bullet up into the die, & screw the seating stem down until it makes firm contact with the dummy bullet - your die will be set pretty close to the COL of the dummy round. Make & keep one for each type & weight of bullet used when you find a " good" load and a good seating depth. Makes it very easy to set your dies up for those COALs.

On the powder measure, try to operate it the same way every time - same speed, same amount of force, etc. - I tap mine twice at the end of the downstroke, for example.

 

[derrinx]

Stavman,

I just did a few more with your technique, still not as easy as boat tails but a lot faster than last night.

To resolve the powder thrower issue,

I had done a piss poor job of degreasing. I took it apart today and noticed a lot of powder stuck on the walls and in the metering area. I assume this is what was causing the inconsistencies. I completely tore it apart and scrubbed it, next time it should perform better.

 

[derrinx]

I have 200 loaded rounds so far, I decided to stop and double check the hreadspacing on the next batch of 150. If only I had more time for this...

 

[derrinx]

Also one more question. Overall case length is recommended to be 2.200" with 55gr fmj spire point bullets. I did them all around there, 2.198 to 2.202". The bullets seemed to be a bit far back. Is that just inexperience talking?

 

[gahunter12]

If you have a Headspace gage that you drop your cases in, and check for proper head space like a LE Wilson, or Dillon you can check your loaded rounds. If you bump your shoulder back too far during sizing you can have have case head separation, or possibly fail to fire. This would be the extreme, but it could happen. If its bumped back .006-.007" you will probably be ok, but case life will be short.

What I mean by working up a load. Start at 26gr, 26.4gr, 26.8gr, and 27.2gr. Load about 10-15 for each powder charge. Do this for every type of bullet you have. As you work your way through each load at the range from min to max look for pressure issues, gun function, and accuracy. The idea of 26gr being the min, and 27.4 being the max, and your loads are somewhere in the middle isn't very safe.

 

[gahunter12]

That's a little short, but should work fine. I always seat my 55gr FMJ to 2.225". You will get some shorter than others. I will usually see the shortest at 2.224, and the longest at 2.226"

 

[grogetr]

I haven't loaded for rifle but it seems like there's more to it than pistol. I assume you have a manual you are using. I read my lyman 49 edition a couple times and on here before I started. Cabelas has them on sale for $16 right now.

 

[GJSchulze]

The idea of 26gr being the min, and 27.4 being the max, and your loads are somewhere in the middle isn't very safe.

Why do you say this isn't safe? His spread was 26.4 to 27.0, not as you stated. I'm curious because I don't do rifle, so am I missing something? Or are you saying it isn't safe because he didn't work up loads? Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like he gave enough information to determine a while lot.

 

[derrinx]

Why do you say this isn't safe? His spread was 26.4 to 27.0, not as you stated. I'm curious because I don't do rifle, so am I missing something? Or are you saying it isn't safe because he didn't work up loads? Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like he gave enough information to determine a while lot.

Yes I weighed about 75 shots of powder all through out the process of charging the cases. It took me a very long time to do everything because I was double checking so much. All shots were between 26.4 and 27.0 grains, with the number 26.6 grains being the most seen in my mind. So with my (very very limited) experience I decided that was fine as these are plinking rounds, and the guidelines say 26.0 to 27.8 grains for CFE223 according to the loading data. I plan on '"working up some loads" on the next batch of 150 cases I have prepped but not loaded yet. Also as I already mentioned, I cleaned the powder thrower really well tonight and expect it to be very consistent next time.

Live and learn.

 

[epoletna]

Sounds like you've got a good start, with a few issues to keep you focused. The difference in load weights is strange, but you might have found the problem with cleaning the powder measure and degreasing it. Remember any petroleum based lubricant is bad news for powder and primers, so make sure you clean any cases that have oil or grease on them. Same for tools that will touch powder or primers. No oil!

The crushed case mouth is also strange. As someone has said, you probably have to guide the bullet right up to the bottom of the die when you are starting it.

And I find it curious that you have to do much length trimming this early in the life of the case. Cases don't usually stretch much with each firing -- it is only after they've been reloaded 3-4 times that you usually see enough stretching to need trimming.

Finally, as someone has already said, you need to know how much resizing to do. For cases that have been fired in your rifle, it is not unusual to neck size only. That means you back the die out half a turn or so when you're resizing. After running a case in and out of the die with it set out a little like this you'll see the neck is resized but you have not hit the body. I don't reload .223 (yet) but with larger cases (.243, .308, .30-06, etc.) it is not unusual to just neck size cases that have only been fired in my gun.

Enjoy! It's a great hobby/sport.

 

[gahunter12]

Why do you say this isn't safe? His spread was 26.4 to 27.0, not as you stated. I'm curious because I don't do rifle, so am I missing something? Or are you saying it isn't safe because he didn't work up loads? Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like he gave enough information to determine a while lot.

I was stating the Min/Max per Hodgdon. Yes in reality he's good to go as long as he's in that range. The unsafe side is the broad range that his powder measure drops. It sounds like the OP may have found his issue. Lucky for him CFE223 is in the slower side of common .223 powders. If he were to use AA2200, or Benchmark which is faster he "could" run into pressure issues. I should have done a better job of explaining myself (Sorry). The OP may have everything under control, but when he first stated he loaded a bunch of rounds up front without working his load up, and says he's getting erratic powder drops, I have to worry a little. I hate to see anyone loose a gun, and most important get hurt.

OP I hope you don't take it as I was beating up on you. Just trying to help, and get the old brain churning!