Working up a .45 ACP load

[fatmanonabike]

Nothing fancy just trying to get the best shooting Bullseye and a 200 gr LSWC load for my SR1911. I believe the magic number is between 4.5 and 5.0 grains. This may all be academic as I'd say my shooting skills are probably average to poor , but I'll take improvement where I can find it.
My questions are:
1) what powder charge increment will make a meaningful difference in a 200 gr LSWC load?

2) how significant is seating depth and how critical is it to performance?

3) is there any real difference between 200 gr LSWC bullets?

4) I'm currently shooting Friendswood Bullet Company since I can drive over to pick them up. It saves $15 shipping/500 pcs.

 

[Kp321]

A lot depends on your pistol, rather the spring in it. I'm running a 12# spring in my Gold Cup and can use 4gr loads but the best accuracy is 4.5gr of 231. A heavier spring might need more powder to function reliably. As far a seating depth, swc bullets are normally seated with the front driving band flush with the case mouth.

 

[Promod1385]

Never done any reloading with Bullseye. I use AA#2 or TiteGroup for my 45acp loads.

The main difference in 200gr LSWC is the hardness of the bullet. If your not getting any leading then you should be good to go.

For me lube makes the biggest difference when it comes to lead bullets. I noticed certain brands of lube tended to smoke a lot more than others. I am sure whoever your getting your stuff from is using a commercially available lube or making there own. What color is the lube on the projectiles your getting?

 

[steve4102]

The magic number is 4.5-4.9gr WST.

 

[LiveLife]

Bullseye and a 200 gr LSWC ... I believe the magic number is between 4.5 and 5.0 grains

Current Alliant load data lists 4.6 gr as max charge for 200 gr LSWC.
2004 Alliant load data lists 4.0 gr as target load max for 200 gr LSWC bullet.

what powder charge increment will make a meaningful difference in a 200 gr LSWC load?

When I am working up a load, I initially use .2-.3 gr to get me in the ballpark and use .1 gr to fine-tune the load.

how significant is seating depth and how critical is it to performance?

In theory, closer the bearing surface of the bullet is to the start of rifling, the sooner the chamber pressure will build for greater accuracy. This Walkalong's thread is a great resource for determining Max OAL using the barrel. In practice, the finished rounds need to reliably feed/chamber from the magazine and this "Ideal OAL" may be shorter than the Max OAL. If the Max OAL won't feed reliably when the slide is manually released, I incrementally decrease the OAL until it does. This OAL is the Ideal OAL that will work reliably in your pistol/barrel while putting the bearing surface of the bullet closest to the start of rifling when the round is chambered.

is there any real difference between 200 gr LSWC bullets?

Commercial 200 gr LSWC bullets are available in different nose profile (mold design), sizing and lead alloy hardness (12 - 24 BHN).

Slug your barrel to determine the groove diameter of your barrel and use bullets sized .001" larger (so if your barrel's groove diameter is .451", use .452" sized bullets).

IME/IMO, I need to push 20-24 BHN bullets harder at high-to-near max load data to not get leading. If you are shooting lower velocity target loads (say mid-to-high range load data), softer 12 BHN bullet will deform/obturate better to seal with the barrel and produce accuracy while not leading. With Missouri 12 BHN 200 gr SWC (Bullseye #1), even a light target load using 4.0 gr of Promo/Red Dot will produce light recoiling accurate target load that is pleasant to shoot, especially for my wife and older friends with arthritis.

FWIW, I have used Bullseye powder for 45ACP and 9mm in the past years but in recent years have switched to W231/HP-38. For me and many others, 5.0 gr seems to work very well with 200 gr LSWC bullet.

 

[fatmanonabike]

Never done any reloading with Bullseye. I use AA#2 or TiteGroup for my 45acp loads.

The main difference in 200gr LSWC is the hardness of the bullet. If your not getting any leading then you should be good to go.

For me lube makes the biggest difference when it comes to lead bullets. I noticed certain brands of lube tended to smoke a lot more than others. I am sure whoever your getting your stuff from is using a commercially available lube or making there own. What color is the lube on the projectiles your getting?

The lube is blue.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My questions are:
1) what powder charge increment will make a meaningful difference in a 200 gr LSWC load?

2) how significant is seating depth and how critical is it to performance?

3) is there any real difference between 200 gr LSWC bullets?

4) I'm currently shooting Friendswood Bullet Company since I can drive over to pick them up. It saves $15 shipping/500 pcs.

If you decide Bullseye isn't getting the job done and you decide to try a different powder give W231/HP-38 a try. When loading a 200gr SWC I've always gotten the best results using a charge of between 5.2gr and 5.5gr with an OAL of 1.230". Sorry I can't advise you on a Bulllseye load because I never used Bullseye...

1. I usually use a .2gr charge change in handgun cartridges when trying to find a good load.

4. Don't treat saving $15/500 lightly. That's a savings of 3 cents a round or $1.50/box savings. Many who buy factory ammo will go out of their way to save $1.50 a box.

 

[fatmanonabike]

Well thanks so much bds. I looked back at the Alliant website you posted and not surprisingly, saw the 4.6 grains that you posted. I was planning on loading up 4.8 gr. tonight but your prompt and thoughtful reply kept me from doing something potentially stupid. Guess it's time for me to start on a log book with sourced load data. Looking at the table it does recommend 4.6 but it doesn't specifically state it as a DO NOT EXCEED maximum. Am I reading it incorrectly?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Looking at the table it does recommend 4.6 but it doesn't specifically state it as a DO NOT EXCEED maximum. Am I reading it incorrectly?

Maximum means maximum so there's no need to specifically state DO NOT EXCEED. That's what maximum means but if it makes you feel better to think it's alright to exceed the max charge just because they don't yell at you...

 

[Mike 27]

This is one of my favorites. I shoot BE and 200gr LRN out of my XD w/5.5" bbl. It works great. I can't remember my exact weight and cant get to my log right now. I have good luck with Missouri's XD and HSM LRN. Both work great and very accurate. I have no experience with the manufacturer that you are using. I think you will be very happy with this load. It has worked well for me for years.

 

[LiveLife]

I think a Bullseye powder work up in the range of 3.8, 4.0, 4.2 and 4.4 gr should give you a good mapping of accuracy trends.

I usually load 10 rounds of each incremental powder charge and verify accuracy trends at 7, 10 and 15 yards using 3-shot groups (you can also do 5-shot groups at 7/10 or 10/15 yards).

Once I identify a start of accuracy trend that reliably cycles the slide, I repeat the range test with .1 gr increments to isolate the most accurate powder charge.

When I get consistent accuracy verifications on 3 subsequent range trips, I deem that load accurate for my pistol.

When I get consistent accuracy verifications from several different pistols/shooters, I deem that load very accurate.

 

[Slamfire]

I loaded mine H&G type 68 200 LSWC's with 4.0 grains Bullseye. It shot exceptionally well.

[SIZE="3"]Kimber Custom Classic 			
					
200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases CCI300			
11-Sep-05	T = 88 °F				
Ave Vel =	738.9				
Std Dev =	10.34				
ES =	37.98				
High =  = 	755.8				
Low =	717.8				
N =	32				
					
					
200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WLP 			
21-Jun-06	T = 97 °F		
Ave Vel =	748.2			
Std Dev =	10.86				
ES =	41.52				
High =  = 	763.2				
Low =	721.7				
N =	22	[/SIZE]

 

[Canuck-IL]

your prompt and thoughtful reply kept me from doing something potentially stupid

Before generalizing too far, note the OAL in that excerpt above from Alliant. 1.19 is very short for the common 45ACP LSWC bulelts. Most of those are H&G #68 design (roughly) and a typical OAL for those is on the order of 1.250 - 1.255.

There are LSWC designs with a small, "button" nose (H&G 130s IIRC) which are loaded much shorter.

Anyway, 4.0 BE behind an H&G 68 loaded so that just a thumbnail of the shank is above the case mouth has been a standard accuracy load in Bullseye shooting for decades. You can likely go down as far as 3.5 - 3.7 or as high as 4.2 - 4.5 and still cycle the gun reliably - - depends on the shape the springs are in and how tight your particular gun is.

With an extremely tight BE gun, I use 3.8 for indoor 50 foot Gallery courses and 4.0 for 50 yd outdoors, both with a 13 pound recoil spring and a 19# mainspring. WIth a slide mounted red dot, the same loads are fine with a 10-11 pound spring.
/Bryan

 

[fatmanonabike]

I'm shooting 4 grains now and just loaded 4.5 grains for a comparison. Virtually all my shooting is done off hand. I would guess there is much more room for improvement in the shooter than the load, but I'll take improvement anywhere I can get it.

 

[rcmodel]

2) how significant is seating depth and how critical is it to performance?

With a 200 grain SWC, you have no choice on seating OAL.

The correct OAL for a cast SWC is all the driving bands seated inside the case, with about a thumbnails thickness of the last one still sticking out of the case mouth.

Regardless of the exact bullet brand or mold design, that is the only correct OAL for it.

rc

 

[mr16ga]

Bullseye not so good for me

I have tried Bullseye several times and have never been too impressed. I have loaded it in .45ACP and .357 Mag. I found that the load density to be too low giving erratic groups. I get much better groups with Unique. When I want to step up the power on .357 mag or .44 mag I use 2400 IMR 4227.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

X2 Unique.

 

[Madpap]

The magic number is 4.5-4.9gr WST.

For me 4.6 of WST is outstanding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Crazy Carl]

My 1911s love 230gr LRNs over 4.8gr of W231.

I've loaded a batch of Berry's plated 200gr SWC over 4.8, 5.1 & 5.6gr of W231, tho no chance to check 'em out yet.

 

[Mcinterest]

I use 4.3gn Bullseye with 200 FP Berrys. Seems to work great through my Colt

 

[coalman]

I run 4.0gr BE with 200gr LSWC. OAL impact can depend on your gun's throat as well as feeding reliability. Lead hardness and diameter consistency can matter, which depends on the quality standards of the maker, as can lube type for level of smoke. For LSWC range fodder I've found it's about all the same.

 

[fatmanonabike]

Thanks rc. I have an occassional fail to feed. Once ever couple hundred rounds or so. And I've suspected I may have an OAL issue. I'm about 1.235 now, so I have considerable room to shorten according to SAAMI.

 

[trixter]

I seem to be stuck at 4.7. Liking it a lot.

 

[LiveLife]

I have an occassional fail to feed. Once ever couple hundred rounds or so.

What taper crimp are you using?

I'm about 1.235 now, so I have considerable room to shorten according to SAAMI.

Before going shorter than 1.235" OAL, I would first verify the taper crimp and conduct a barrel drop test if not done so.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

 

[Canuck-IL]

Lots of past threads - and RC reminded above - OAL on a LSWC depends on the nose design. That's why it's NOT how you determine correct seating.

A thumbnail of bullet shank out of the case most closely duplicates the feeding geometry of 230gr FMJs ... ie. where it all began. And that does not depend upon OAL.
/B