World Leaders Condemn Iranian's Call to Wipe Israel 'Off the Map'

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Sergeant Bob

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World Leaders Condemn Iranian's Call to Wipe Israel 'Off the Map'

By Mary Jordan and Karl Vick
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, October 28, 2005; Page A16

LONDON, Oct. 27 -- Leaders around the world on Thursday condemned a call by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that Israel be "wiped off the map," and a top Iranian official said that mass demonstrations in his country on Friday would rebuff the rising criticism from abroad.

"I have never come across a situation of the president of a country saying they want to . . . wipe out another country," British Prime Minister Tony Blair said at a summit outside London of the 25 leaders of the European Union's member states.


Blair said Ahmadinejad's comment was "completely and totally unacceptable."

In a joint statement, the E.U. leaders "condemned in the strongest terms" the Iranian president's call, saying it "will cause concern about Iran's role in the region and its future intentions." President Jacques Chirac of France told reporters that Ahmadinejad risked Iran "being left on the outside of other nations."

Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, in Israel, called the Iranian president's statement "unacceptable."

The statement was widely reported in the Arab world; leaders there reacted for the most part with silence. Most Arab countries have no diplomatic relations with Israel. But the Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, said, according to the Associated Press: "We have recognized the state of Israel and we are pursuing a peace process with Israel, and . . . we do not accept the statements of the president of Iran. This is unacceptable."

U.S. and European leaders have grown increasingly worried about the bellicose attitude of Iran at a time when it is pursuing a nuclear program that they have said may be intended to produce a nuclear weapon.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702221.html
 
Lupinus said:
yeah lets see if they actually do anything about for a change
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Did you not read the article?

In a joint statement, the E.U. leaders "condemned in the strongest terms" the Iranian president's call, saying it "will cause concern about Iran's role in the region and its future intentions."
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Thats some pretty hefty action from the E.U. right there.

Seriously, read it again. CONDEMNED IN THE STRONGEST TERMS

What did you expect? The possbility of someone actually expressing a willingness to DO something? Sheesh. :rolleyes:
 
yeah but knowing them they are blowing smoke.

the UN also passed how many things saying Saddam had one last chance? :rolleyes:

Maybe they failed math class and couldn't remember waht exactly one is
 
The day the EU gets off its fat fanny and does anything is the day I will be impressed. Depending on them to do anything but blow gas out of their pie hole is akin to the UN.
 
When does it get to the point where Israel can just nuke them and be done with it? I'm surprised the Israelis have shown as much restraint as they have.

I think they have been waiting for just something like this, to justify the extreme response they are capable of delivering.
 
TexasSIGman said:
When does it get to the point where Israel can just nuke them and be done with it? I'm surprised the Israelis have shown as much restraint as they have.

I think they have been waiting for just something like this, to justify the extreme response they are capable of delivering.
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Israel isn't nuking anyone until they are nuked or a major chemical/biological attack hits Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

First, there is a real chance at this point that Iran has nukes. If they do, and Israel sends the missles over, Iran will respond and no more Israel.

Second, Israel has been normalizing relations with many Arab and Muslim countries. Jordan signed a peace treaty a few years ago, and in the years since there has been close cooperation on many issues (including security issues) between the two countries. A few of the smaller Gulf states have unofficial ties with Israel, some quite strategically important. Turkey is one of Israel's only friends in Europe and one of its most important trading partners. While by no means friendly, relations with Pakistan are very slowly starting to thaw. While India isn't a Muslim county, it has a large Muslim population and is a major trading partner, and possible future ally. If Israel wipes 10s of millions of their brother Muslims off the face of the map, not only will those efforts go down the toilet but there will be certain war with not only the Arab world but likely the entire Muslim world.

Third, Israel, like the US, is more humane than that and isn't wiping a country off the map without good reason. Even if there would be no other repercussions, they aren't going to kill 10s of millions of people without a very good cause.

Fourth, the Middle East isn't that big a place and nuking Iran will have major evironmental and human poisoning throughout the Middle East (likely including Israel).

Last, if Israel does that, the response of the "international community" would be swift and massive. Condemnation? Think more like an international effort at invasion and punishment. Think the US will hold it off? If Israel nukes someone without good cause I think the US would be part of the effort.

I think you were talking tongue in cheek, but just in case I wanted to point out just a few reasons why it would never happen. As for a more likely, less extreme military response, well the above reasons still apply just to a lesser degree (how much lesser depends upon the severity of an Israeli response). They won't attack over rhetoric.
 
The statement was widely reported in the Arab world; leaders there reacted for the most part with silence.
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Of course. What the Iranian President said is the REAL position of most of the Arab/Islamic world. Why be surprised?
 
I am beginning to think that Ahmadinejad is crazy or perhaps stupid. He was already in hot water with Khamenei for embarassing the EU by blatantly rebuffing nuclear talks, no doubt this is going to get him in more trouble.

For what it's worth the president of Iran has almost no power. The "Supreme Guide", Ali Khamenei, is effectively a dictator. Khamenei is only evil, not crazy.
 
The EU is currently weighing extremely important decisions . . .

. . . one of which was to grant Greece the exclusive use of the word 'Feta' to describe its cheese.

So don't you go counting them out yet, Sonny Jim, they'll get around to that Iran thing when it comes on the agenda.

jmm
 
The Washington Times story noted, shall we say, an interesting juxtaposition. At the same time Ahmedinijad made his statement, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was pleading for the Palestinians to end their terror attacks. The Palestinians responded by "[making] a mockery" of his plea. How? By blowing up more Isrealis, five dead and at least thirty wounded.

chaim's thoughtful post on Israel's situation is food for thought, but the mouthbreathers at the New York Times still seem to think all would be well if the Isrealis were just more reasonable. In other words, if they just capitulated to the throat-cutting savages.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20051027-012613-4057r.htm
 
I think you were talking tongue in cheek,
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Chaim, somewhat yes but somewhat no. A direct statement like this would certainly be justification for something. All I'm saying is I am surprised Israel has shown the restraint it has.

The US has gone to war with less cause than a direct statement such as this certainly.

Israel has set themselves up as the good guy, by handing over Gaza. That no good has come of that at all shows exactly what Israel is up against. They have an enemy that simply does not want peace.

Any Muslim country that has a peaceful relationship with Israel only does so out of a selfish need for Israel to counter balance that country's other enemies.

Israel stands alone over there, regardless of how nice Turkey or Pakistan or whoever happens to be on a particular day.

If push comes to shove Israel will be alone.

What is a country to do that is in such a position? How much "tolerance" and international understanding is a free country required to indulge in before it's OK to protect it's own existence?
 
Israel

If I were the Iranian leaders I wouldn't be to concerend about the Worlds leaders giving them (Iran), static about what they said. I'd be more concerend about the Israel leadership who have been silent,-----so far.
 
The UN will issue a strongly worded letter.

Chaim, I wonder just what you mean when you insist that Israel has to wait until it is attacked. There won't be an Israel if the attack is an Iranian nuke. The country isn't that big. Israel can't wait until the inevitable happens. I say strike now. It is not like the Islamo-Fascists are going to hate Israel any more than they already do.
 
Any Muslim country that has a peaceful relationship with Israel only does so out of a selfish need for Israel to counter balance that country's other enemies.
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To a degree I agree with you, but then, all international relations kinda work this way. All nations base their foreign policy on self interest. As many people love to say, nations don't have friends they have allies. Even our closest "friends" in the world, Israel and the UK, would turn on us tomorrow if in their best interests, and vice versa.

The US doesn't take a black eye in the Arab world and support Israel because it is the right thing to do. It may help, but the bigger reason (and the reason for the closeness of the relationship) is because Israel is our most stable ally in a very strategically important region.

So, in some degree, all nations that cooperate with each other do it for selfish reasons.

Additionally, in some parts of the Arab world (mainly Jordan Morocco, and some of the more moderate Gulf nations) there is a sincere desire to normalize with Israel. Do they want to be Israel's best friend, of course not. However, they want Israel's markets, they want Israeli support, and they want the stability that comes when you aren't officially at war with another country. Sure, much of it is due to corresponding interests, but the desire is sincere.

Getting out of the Arab world to the broader Islamic world and things are more varied. Some non-Arab countries take a harder line on Israel than most Arab countries (see the recent speech and today's demonstrations in Iran). However, there are exceptions. Turkey is as sincere in their relationship to Israel as they are with their relationship with pretty much anyone else in the world (and they have strong historical ties with the Jewish community in Israel- what is now Israel was under Turkish rule until after WWI when the UK got it in the peace following the war). Turkey and Israel are major trading partners, and Turkey is probably Israel's second most reliable ally (the US being 1st).

Chaim, I wonder just what you mean when you insist that Israel has to wait until it is attacked.
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Israel isn't nuking anyone without nukes in the air coming at Israel. Just like the US/USSR dynamic they rely on MAD. My understanding is that the open secret strategy (which their potential enemies know well) is that if there is a missle in the air there won't be time to determine exactly where it came from (the Middle East isn't that big a place) and there certainly won't be time to select specific targets (Israel is small and will probably be destroyed in a nuclear attack and the missles will be there quickly) so Israel will level pretty much every Arab country plus Iran. So, no one wants to nuke Israel and their neighbors put pressure on each other to prevent it as well. Certainly, even if that isn't quite true, they do rely on MAD. Iran's leadership may foam at the mouth but they aren't stupid- they want to win, they are willing to send others to die, but they don't want to commit national suicide.

Anyway, if Israel had good intelligence that Iran was about to launch a strike, they'd likely lauch a military pre-emptive attack (nuclear, non-nuclear, who knows- probably just a little more than what is needed). They'd probably rely on being able to prove the threat to prevent too much international trouble, but again they'd wait for a real, verifiable, and imminent threat, not just some rhetoric. They also wouldn't level Iran, they'd do what they needed to neutralize the threat.

Israel probably has better intelligence inside Iran than the US does, probably better than anyone. They know they have to watch Iran. They also have a reputation of reacting, and reacting strongly to any threat. However, they won't jump the gun, especially with these kind of high stakes.
 
Israel and Iran

Of course Israel is concerned about Iran. However, this is the first time that it seemed to get everyone else's attention. Iranian officials, even the "moderates" have been calling for Israel's destruction for years.

First, a word about the likelihood of Iranian use of nukes against Israel:

The vast majority of prevailing winds in the middle east blow west-->east. So fallout for their Moslem brothers is a problem.

The estimated number of Iranian nukes is small. The number of Israeli nukes that nonIsraeli sources have guesstimated is much larger. Furthermore, thanks to the United States, Israel has significant anti-missile capability, which would have a significant chance of destroying an incoming missile over territory inhabited for the most part by Palestinians.

Jerusalem is a holy city to Moslems as well as Jews and Christians. So they target Tel-Aviv. Anyone care to hazard a guess about how many degrees off you need to be so that a missle targeting Tel Aviv hits Jerusalem by accident? I assure you that Israel does make these calculations. Also, again, Jerusalem is East of Tel Aviv.

Of course, it could just be that the Iranians don't care about any of those things.

They certainly are well on the way go becoming a nuclear power, and Israel is watching closely. Israel is not without options.


As far as the rest of the world's response goes, I guess I'm glad to hear that world leaders find Iran's behavior unacceptable. I would be more happy if the countries headed by those leaders would stop supplying Iran with the tools of the trade to make nukes.

What that speech almost certainly does mean is that Iran will be stepping up their support for Hezbollah. Iran is their main source of support as is. Furthermore, Iran will now be increasing support for nonShiite terror groups as well, such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad. I have a feeling that the middle east will become a little warmer now....

And El Tejon, (unfortunately for me personally) real-estate prices in Tel-Aviv are not falling.........:D
 
shaldag said:
By the way, Chaim,
Jordan has normalized relations with Israel.
Click to expand...

I know, they are almost allies at this point (and the word "almost" can probably be removed within a couple years).
 
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