Israel/Iran rhetoric intensifies...

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lysander

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More Nuk-U-Lar sabre rattling from the Mid-East

Article

The Sunday Times December 11, 2005

Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran
Uzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv, and Sarah Baxter, Washington

ISRAEL’S armed forces have been ordered by Ariel Sharon, the prime minister, to be ready by the end of March for possible strikes on secret uranium enrichment sites in Iran, military sources have revealed.
The order came after Israeli intelligence warned the government that Iran was operating enrichment facilities, believed to be small and concealed in civilian locations.

Iran’s stand-off with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) over nuclear inspections and aggressive rhetoric from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, who said last week that Israel should be moved to Europe, are causing mounting concern.

The crisis is set to come to a head in early March, when Mohamed El-Baradei, the head of the IAEA, will present his next report on Iran. El-Baradei, who received the Nobel peace prize yesterday, warned that the world was “losing patience” with Iran.

A senior White House source said the threat of a nuclear Iran was moving to the top of the international agenda and the issue now was: “What next?” That question would have to be answered in the next few months, he said.

Defence sources in Israel believe the end of March to be the “point of no return” after which Iran will have the technical expertise to enrich uranium in sufficient quantities to build a nuclear warhead in two to four years.

“Israel — and not only Israel — cannot accept a nuclear Iran,” Sharon warned recently. “We have the ability to deal with this and we’re making all the necessary preparations to be ready for such a situation.”

The order to prepare for a possible attack went through the Israeli defence ministry to the chief of staff. Sources inside special forces command confirmed that “G” readiness — the highest stage — for an operation was announced last week.

Gholamreza Aghazadeah, head of the Atomic Organisation of Iran, warned yesterday that his country would produce nuclear fuel. “There is no doubt that we have to carry out uranium enrichment,” he said.

He promised it would not be done during forthcoming talks with European negotiators. But although Iran insists it wants only nuclear energy, Israeli intelligence has concluded it is deceiving the world and has no intention of giving up what it believes is its right to develop nuclear weapons.

A “massive” Israeli intelligence operation has been underway since Iran was designated the “top priority for 2005”, according to security sources.

Cross-border operations and signal intelligence from a base established by the Israelis in northern Iraq are said to have identified a number of Iranian uranium enrichment sites unknown to the the IAEA.

Since Israel destroyed the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981, “it has been understood that the lesson is, don’t have one site, have 50 sites”, a White House source said.

If a military operation is approved, Israel will use air and ground forces against several nuclear targets in the hope of stalling Tehran’s nuclear programme for years, according to Israeli military sources.

It is believed Israel would call on its top special forces brigade, Unit 262 — the equivalent of the SAS — and the F-15I strategic 69 Squadron, which can strike Iran and return to Israel without refuelling.
“If we opt for the military strike,” said a source, “it must be not less than 100% successful. It will resemble the destruction of the Egyptian air force in three hours in June 1967.”
Aharon Zeevi Farkash, the Israeli military intelligence chief, stepped up the pressure on Iran this month when he warned Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, that “if by the end of March the international community is unable to refer the Iranian issue to the United Nations security council, then we can say the international effort has run its course”.

The March deadline set for military readiness also stems from fears that Iran is improving its own intelligence-gathering capability. In October it launched its first satellite, the Sinah-1, which was carried by a Russian space launcher.

“The Iranians’ space programme is a matter of deep concern to us,” said an Israeli defence source. “If and when we launch an attack on several Iranian targets, the last thing we need is Iranian early warning received by satellite.”

Russia last week signed an estimated $1 billion contract — its largest since 2000 — to sell Iran advanced Tor-M1 systems capable of destroying guided missiles and laser-guided bombs from aircraft.

“Once the Iranians get the Tor-M1, it will make our life much more difficult,” said an Israeli air force source. “The installation of this system can be relatively quick and we can’t waste time on this one.”

The date set for possible Israeli strikes on Iran also coincides with Israel’s general election on March 28, prompting speculation that Sharon may be sabre-rattling for votes.

Benjamin Netanyahu, the frontrunner to lead Likud into the elections, said that if Sharon did not act against Iran, “then when I form the new Israeli government, we’ll do what we did in the past against Saddam’s reactor, which gave us 20 years of tranquillity”.

TEHRAN MINISTER MET MILITANTS BEFORE NEW OFFENSIVE

Iran’s foreign minister met leading figures from three Islamic militant groups to co-ordinate a united front against Israel days before a recent escalation of attacks against Israeli targets shattered fragile ceasefires with Lebanon and the Palestinians, writes Hugh Macleod in Damascus.

The minister, Manouchehr Mottaki, held talks with leaders of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah in Damascus on November 15.

Among those who attended the meeting were Khaled Meshaal, the Hamas leader, and a deputy leader of Islamic Jihad, which claimed responsibility for last Monday’s suicide bombing of a shopping mall in Netanya that killed five Israeli citizens.

Ahmed Jibril, leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine- General Command, was also present. “We all confirmed that what is going on in occupied Palestine is organically connected to what is going on in Iraq, Syria, Iran and Lebanon,” said Jibril.

Seven days after the talks, Hezbollah fired a volley of rockets and mortars at Israeli targets, sparking the fiercest fighting between the two sides since Israel’s withdrawal from south Lebanon five years ago.
 
Yea, I used to think that Iran was being sort of picked-on. But their leader is beyond any doubt begging for this to happen. Other Muslim countries fell silent in regard to his speeches a while ago, and now even his countrymen are worrying about his actions.

The only explanations are that he A) is unfit to govern, a hazard to himself and his people, or B) wants some form of hostilities to commence.

Sadly, both are equally likely. And in either case the results are saddening. But the problems with B) are that you must ask 'WHY does he wish hostilities?' And in regards to the main issue, the answer could all-too-likely be 'because he wishes to retaliate'.

That is what worries the most now. I hope the Israelis are smart and their intelligence can meet the demands. Good luck to them, I wouldn't wish anyone to have to make the decisions they have to.
 
lysander said:
More Nuk-U-Lar sabre rattling from the Mid-East

Article

Eh. Either they'll continue to point fingers and go "blah blah blah" at each other and bristle up like angry cats till they get tired of it, or someone will send war toys whichever way, and they'll both complain to the international community, Iran likely crying "You broke my reactor!", etc, etc...

Been going on for what, five thousand years?
 
All this current ugliness dates back to the days Jimmy Carter occupied the White House. He was the president who showed the entire Arab world the United States would meekly turn the other cheek and pray for peace.
 
Standing Wolf said:
All this current ugliness dates back to the days Jimmy Carter occupied the White House. He was the president who showed the entire Arab world the United States would meekly turn the other cheek and pray for peace.

Actually, it dates back to when we got out noses stuck in that region in the middle of the century. Before that, they had no REASON to hate us.

Sometimes a little bit of MYOB isolationism is a Good Thing. Yeah, yeah, I know we needed the oil as the Age of the Automobile came about, but I think it was the attempt to play install-puppet-leaders and Back Israel No Matter What that really touched off the first sparks of 'kill American devils' mentality.

Before all that...why would they care what happened half a world away? They didn't. And attempting to interfere in that region, where tribes have been fighting for thousands of years, is just like trying to break up fighting dogs with your bare hands. You won't stop them, but it's likely you'll get bit.
 
I hear what you're saying...and to a degree you may have a point.

Before all that...why would they care what happened half a world away?

Jealousy? Insecurity? Shame at having declined from one of the most advanced civilizations on the earth to their current state of savagery? We reject their false God, and yet our nation is blessed beyond measure while theirs are poisoned with strife? All of these reasons to hate us, and yet they depend on our money for survival and for their royal palaces and everything?


Below is an excerpt from one of my favorite articles on this war: http://ko.offroadpakistan.com/world/2003_07/uss_clueless_strategic_overview.html
# What is the root cause of the war?

1. Collective failure of the nations and people in a large area which is predominately Arab and/or Islamic.
1. Economically the only contribution they make is by selling natural resources which are available to them solely through luck.
2. They make no significant contribution to international science or engineering.
3. They make little or no cultural contribution to the world. Few seek out their poetry, their writing, their movies or music. The most famous Muslim writer of fiction in the world is under a fatwa death sentence now and lives in exile in Europe.
4. Their only diplomatic relevance is due to their oil.
5. They are not respected by the world, or by themselves.
2. Since this is a "face" culture, shame about this this has led to rising but unfocused discontent, anger and resentment.
3. Some governments in the region have tried to focus it elsewhere so as to deflect it away from themselves. (The "Zionist Entity" is a favorite target.)
4. Ambitious leaders of various kinds of tried to use it for their own purposes.
1. Khomeinei and the Taliban used it to support revolutions respectively in Iran and Afghanistan.
2. Saddam used it to gain support for creation of a united pan-Arab empire ruled from Baghdad.
 
Manedwolf said:
Actually, it dates back to when we got out noses stuck in that region in the middle of the century. Before that, they had no REASON to hate us.


You're referring to the 11th Century, right? If so, you've probably hit the nail on the head!

Ron
 
Manedwolf said:
...
Before all that...why would they care what happened half a world away? They didn't. And attempting to interfere in that region, where tribes have been fighting for thousands of years, is just like trying to break up fighting dogs with your bare hands. You won't stop them, but it's likely you'll get bit.

Are you talking about the mid-east or Europe prior to 1945?
 
neoncowboy said:
...
Jealousy? Insecurity? Shame at having declined from one of the most advanced civilizations on the earth to their current state of savagery? We reject their false God, and yet our nation is blessed beyond measure while theirs are poisoned with strife? All of these reasons to hate us, and yet they depend on our money for survival and for their royal palaces and everything?
...

Perhaps depended. China (whom we love to send our dollars via Wal-Mart) is consuming a lot of oil.

But, remember my American friends, why our country was discovered. Global trade and riches for those who've got what you want are nothing new. Remember why old Chris was sailing around? The spice trade. Global interaction and wars over trade are nothing new. The Opium wars. The English vs the Spanish to see who would control the trade.

And I don't think G-d has anything to do with our situation. It will change over time. Everything changes over time and economics has a way of shifting wealth.

Also, I don't understand -- they are "poisoned with strife" and also have unimaginable wealth in their royal palaces?

I've traveled a bit. I don't think our nation is "blessed beyond measure". Go hang out on an Indian reservation, or explore the Mississippi delta region. America is a wonderful place, and I'm proud to be an American, but we're not a utopia.
 
I guess what I meant by that is:

Their priests and imams or whatever cry foul on the 'american way of life' and point to us as the great satan...while their god, Allah is supposedly the true god. Yet for all their following after Allah, it's us, America, the great satan, who has risen to a preminent position in the world.

Great, there's a handful of rich arabs living in palaces. But by and large, the arab world is not one of great prosperity. America on the other hand, is.

Make no mistake, America has been blessed beyond measure. Utopia? No. But look at our incredible history of prosperity and national success!

Our success brings shame to the Arab world much the same way it brought shame to communist Russia. That we should enjoy this prosperity, not them.
 
neoncowboy said:
I guess what I meant by that is:
...
Make no mistake, America has been blessed beyond measure. Utopia? No. But look at our incredible history of prosperity and national success!
...

Based first on slavery and then on a succession of cheap immigrant labor.

Because I said that doesn't mean I'm attacking America and our history, so all you right wingers calm down. It just means I've got an MBA, I've studied economics, and there are those who will argue that's the reason we've had prosperity. I'm from the south, there are all of these incredible mansions and such left here in Arkansas...and I don't think building beautiful homes on the backs of slaves is a blessing from G-d.

We have an amazing country, but blind nationalism isn't what I'm about.

Many of the things those "imams or whatever" hate are the same things that conservatives in this country hate. We're the great satan because of Hollywood, homosexuals, naked flesh, decadence, sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll. (see "ideological invasion" in the quote below) No different from a bunch of Baptist "preachers or whatever" going on about fire and brimstone, protecting marriage, fighting the "activist judges".

Are there some Muslims that are insane in their hatred? Of course. Go read the charter for Hamas (http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm):

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that.

and

Because of the situations surrounding the formation of the Organization, of the ideological confusion prevailing in the Arab world as a result of the ideological invasion under whose influence the Arab world has fallen since the defeat of the Crusaders and which was, and still is, intensified through orientalists, missionaries and imperialists, the Organization adopted the idea of the secular state. And that it how we view it.

Secularism completely contradicts religious ideology. Attitudes, conduct and decisions stem from ideologies.

Scary.

The whole "false g-d" thing bothers me. So you would think that anything negative that happens to me is because I'm a Jew? We say something in every service, some of us every day: "Adonai echad". G-d is one. There is one G-d. G-d's presence is shown through human actions, and there are plenty of clean living, honest, hard working Muslims. G-d's absence is also shown through human action, and that includes blind hatred or misplaced pride.

Something else -- someone said this has been going on for "thousands of years". Um, the only people left from "thousands of years" ago, at least from a religious viewpoint, are the Jews. The Roman empire, the Assyrians, Babylonians, they are all gone. The Muslims? They've only been around for 1400 hundred years or so, not "thousands".

There was a bit of disturbance in the area back in the 11th century when the leaders of Europe decided the knights were causing too many hassles and sent them off to regain the holy land from the Muslims, but that only involved Jews being caught in the crossfire.

The high road is atop the mountains, a middle ground giving one clarity and distance of vision, with dark valleys on either side.
 
Keith Wheeler said:
But, remember my American friends, why our country was discovered. Global trade and riches for those who've got what you want are nothing new. Remember why old Chris was sailing around? The spice trade.

Minor quibble there...Columbus was a lousy navigator and hit Hispaniola. The Vikings, long, LONG before had actually been the first from Europe to "discover" and have a settlement on the North American continent. :)

Gotta admire those guys. Across the North Atlantic in an open longboat. THAT is guts. :eek:
 
I think you might be getting a little carried away.

All I was doing was offering reasons why the Muslim Arabs hate us. Reasons besides our Israel supporting foreign policy.
 
All I was doing was offering reasons why the Muslim Arabs hate us. Reasons besides our Israel supporting foreign policy.
Yeah, well you forgot to mention all the crap that flows from open sewer pipe of Hollywood; the smut, perversion and degradation, devout Muslims really loathe that filth and the deviants who produce it.
 
Yeah, well you forgot to mention all the crap that flows from open sewer pipe of Hollywood; the smut, perversion and degradation, devout Muslims really loathe that filth and the deviants who produce it.
Are you saying that the devout Muslims are incapable of using the OFF switch on their TVs and PCs?

They have the same recourse as the rest of us do with things we find personally repellent. Don't like it, then don't watch it.
 
Hey man, so do I...but I'm not encouraging baptists to go set off car bombs in Hollywood.

The difference between me and them? I trust God to sit in a seat of judgment. Justice will be done, I don't have to interfere with or participate in that process.

That's neither here nor there. The only point was that someone said:
Actually, it dates back to when we got out noses stuck in that region in the middle of the century. Before that, they had no REASON to hate us.

And I replied that there is a little more to it than our foreign policy. I don't see what's so controversial about that.
 
Manedwolf said:
Minor quibble there...Columbus was a lousy navigator and hit Hispaniola. The Vikings, long, LONG before had actually been the first from Europe to "discover" and have a settlement on the North American continent. :)

Gotta admire those guys. Across the North Atlantic in an open longboat. THAT is guts. :eek:


Very true, all of it. I've got a lot of respect for Vikings, and had a blast when I spent a week in Denmark. Scandavians are great fun -- I think they reflect the strength of their ancestors.

"You want me to put you back where I found you? Unemployed? In Greenland?"
 
They have the same recourse as the rest of us do with things we find personally repellent. Don't like it, then don't watch it.
You should lobby for a 'Libertarianism 101' curricula in the madrassas, maybe that would help. :p
 
All of this philosophical/historical mumbo-jumbo is fine, but am I the only one scared spitless by the thought of an Islamic nuclear bomb?
 
TheEgg said:
All of this philosophical/historical mumbo-jumbo is fine, but am I the only one scared spitless by the thought of an Islamic nuclear bomb?

Don't worry. Israel has plenty of F16s. That's what they did to the last one.
 
Keith Wheeler said:
Don't worry. Israel has plenty of F16s. That's what they did to the last one.

Keith, Shhh! It's supposed to be a secret:cool:


EXTRA CREDIT QUESTION
Speaking of Vikings, who knows where/from whom the Vikings got their maps?

Ron
 
Easily checkable facts

Some facts that are
easily checkable:

First, look at a map. Israel is so small you can hardly find it. It is
surrounded by 22 Arab nations with land hundreds of thousands of times
that of tiny Israel. And yet Israel is willing to relinquish land --
"for peace." Meanwhile, the Arabs give up nothing and after each gain,
cry out for more.

If you research what their leaders say to their own people you can't
help but see that peace is not now, or ever has been, their goal.

"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will
be spoken of like the
Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."
--Arab League Secretary General Azzam Pasha, May 15, 1948, the day
five Arab armies invaded the new state of Israel, one day after the nation declared its independence.
\"We shall never call for nor accept peace. We shall only accept war. We have resolved to drench this land with your (Israel's) blood, to oust you as aggressor, to throw you into the sea."
--Hafez Assad, then-Syrian Defense Minister, May 24, 1966, who later became Syria's president.

"After we perform our duty in liberating the West Bank and Jerusalem,
our national duty is to liberate all the Arab-occupied territories."
--Jordan's King Hussein, Radio Amman, Dec. 1, 1973
<>"Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for
tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new
expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity."
--Zoheir Muhsin, head of the PLO Military Operations Department and
member of the PLO Executive Council, 1977

"I have never met an Arab leader that in private professed a desire for
an independent Palestinian state. Publicly, they all espouse an
independent Palestinian state -- almost all of them -- because that is
what they committed themselves to do at Rabat (the 1974 Arab League
summit conference)."
--President Jimmy Carter, at a 1979 press conference

"There has been no change whatsoever in the fundamental strategy of the
PLO, which is based on the total liberation of Palestine and the
destruction of the occupying country. ... On no accounts will the
Palestinians accept part of Palestine and call it the Palestinian state,
while forfeiting the remaining areas which are called the State of
Israel."
--Rafiq Najshah, PLO representative in Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabian
News Agency, June 9, 1980
<>"There are two different approaches in the Arab world: that Israel can
be overwhelmed militarily, or that a military victory is impossible. The
power struggle between Israel and the Arabs is a long-term historical
trial. Victory or defeat are for us questions of existence or
annihilation, the outcome of an irreconcilable hatred."
--Al-Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, July 11, 1986<> <>

"The Middle East peace efforts have reached a stalemate. ... The PLO now
has no alternative but to escalate armed struggle outside the occupied
territories in support of the uprising."
--Arafat's number two man, Salah Khalaf, Jan. 22, 1990, Associated
Press

Truth Be Told

There are good Arabs and bad Arabs, good Israelis and bad Israelis,
good Americans and bad Americans. This is not about race, nor even
religion.

This is about an oppressive culture into which beautiful little babies
are born, and slowly destroyed. Human beings are not simply animals, but
are spiritual creatures with a soul, capable of choosing a high road or
a low road. Each one of us, ultimately,
chooses the high or the low road -- that is, we rise above the madness
of our particular culture and discover our true identity and destiny, or
else we identify with our insane culture and revel in it.

When U.S. servicemen put their lives on hold, left their loved ones and
went into harms way to defend Saudi Arabia from the Iraqi army in the
early '90s, the Saudis thanked us by banning Bibles in their country.
Think about this.

During its war with Iraq, Ayatollah Khomeini sent 12-year-old Iranian
boys to the battlefront, having given each boy a cheap plastic key to
wear around his neck. It was the key to heaven, the lad was told. If he
died killing an infidel, he would be transported immediately to heaven.
If the conscripts were old enough to be interested in girls, they were
assured that
when they died killing an infidel -- namely, Christians or Jews -- they
would go straight to Heaven, where they would be given a harem of 50
virgins. Talk about motivation!

No wonder these people with their angry, fear-based, suppressed, and
impoverished lives are so eager to drive a truck bomb into an American
embassy.

Just as in America, young people need to rise above the insane popular
culture of our day, so in the Arab world, these vast populations,
containing many good and decent people, would do well to rise above the
culture and tradition that has oppressed them for thousands of years. It
is an inheritance worthy of casting off, as all hatred is worthy of
casting off.

One more quote:

"Our relationship with Israel is in our mutual self-interest. But a
narrow calculation of interest is not the sole basis of the bond between
our nations. At its heart is a moral obligation on our part to do
whatever is necessary to defend and protect Israel." --President Ronald
Reagan, May 13, 1988.
_____________________
Here are some excerpts from a column written by Joseph Farah, an
Arab-American journalist, for the WorldNetDaily.com:

If you believe what you read in most news sources, Palestinians want a
homeland and Muslims want control over sites they consider holy. Simple,
right?

Well, as an Arab-American journalist who has spent some time in the
Middle East dodging more than my share of rocks and mortar shells, I've
got to tell you that these are just phony excuses for the rioting,
trouble-making and land-grabbing. Isn't it interesting that prior to the
1967 Arab-Israeli war, there was no serious movement for a Palestinian
homeland?

"Well, Farah," you might say, "that was before the Israelis seized the
West Bank and Old Jerusalem."

That's true. In the Six-Day War, Israel captured Judea, Samaria and East
Jerusalem. But they didn't capture these territories from Yasser Arafat.
They captured them from Jordan's King Hussein. I can't help but wonder
why all these Palestinians suddenly discovered their national identity
after Israel won the war.

The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The
first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed
genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of
Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be
known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a
Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way
for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the
name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying
power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous
entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian
crusaders,by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World
War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the
Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct
Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine
governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from
Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East
lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is
ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride.
Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis
make, it will never be enough. What about Islam's holy sites? There are
none in Jerusalem.

Shocked? You should be. I don't expect you will ever hear this brutal
truth from anyone else in the international media. It's just not
politically correct.

I know what you're going to say: "Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome
of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islam's third most holy sites."

Not true. In fact, the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions
Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never
mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is no historical evidence to
suggest Mohammad ever visited Jerusalem.

So how did Jerusalem become the third holiest site of Islam? Muslims
today cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth Sura, entitled
"The Night Journey." It relates that in a dream or a vision Mohammed was
carried by night "from the sacred temple to the temple that is most
remote, whose precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our
signs. ..." In the seventh century, some Muslims identified the two
temples mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem. And
that's as close as Islam's connection with Jerusalem gets -- myth,
fantasy, wishful thinking. Meanwhile, Jews can trace their roots in
Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham.

The latest round of violence in Israel erupted when Likud Party leader
Ariel Sharon tried to visit the Temple Mount, the foundation of the
Temple built by Solomon. It is the holiest site for Jews. Sharon and his
entourage were met with stones and threats. I know what it's like. I've
been there. Can you imagine what it is like for Jews to be threatened,
stoned and physically kept out of the holiest site in Judaism?

So what's the solution to the Middle East mayhem? Well, frankly, I don't
think there is a man-made solution to the violence. But, if there is
one, it needs to begin with truth. Pretending will only lead to more
chaos. Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming
historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims,
wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name.
_____________________
Consider this also, in most of the countries fighting today, it's
muslems against non-muslems. Open your eyes and let the light in.
<>It is time for us to stand and be heard about our feelings towards what is happening in Israel and how the world, the United Nations, and the news media have been handling the Middle East crisis.

Arafat announced that he wants the UN to begin a war crimes trial against Israel. He asked for 2,000 UN troops to "protect the Palestinian people against Israel." This MUST stop! We cannot allow this biased information to continue. We must let the world know how we feel and that this is unacceptable.

I have been extremely troubled by the world's reaction to what is going on in the Middle East and would like to know if the world has gone deaf, dumb and blind?

Where was the world when 3 Israeli soldiers were kidnapped? Where was the world as the Palestinians tortured and beat to death to Israeli reservists who happened to drive through the wrong neighborhood? Where was the world as these same Palestinians showed how proud they were of their bloodied hands? Where was the world as the Palestinians desecrated Joseph's tomb (a Holy site)? Where was the world when a car bomb exploded in a busy Jerusalem marketplace? Why did no one mention that when Israel bombed Palestinian sites in retaliation they first called to get the people out of the buildings and amazingly no one died in all those initial bombings? We see on television children being shot at as they throw rocks at soldiers, but why does no one question what children are doing there in the first place? It's no wonder that they think nothing of attacking a bus full of school children. Would any right thinking parent allow their child to go out into what is known to be a dangerous situation? Would you put your child on the front lines when they are only adolescents? I would lock mine in the house, or hide them in a cellar or under my bed before I would send them out into harms way. Who wouldn't? Yet the Arabs hide behind their children all the time.

And yet, the United Nations and the Security Council send out resolutions against Israel. Let us remember that what initiated this round of violence was the fact that Sharon (who no doubt knew this would cause controversy) went to the Temple on the Mound to pray (which he is entitled to). In reaction to this non-violent act, Palestinians lost control and started an incredible wave of violence. Where was Arafat? How did this get so out-of-control? How did all those rocks (and many were extremely large) get piled up and just happen to "be there?" Have you forgotten that rocks can kill? In the Bible they used to stone people to death. David killed Goliath with a rock. Let's not forgot that rocks can kill and are hurtful and DO cause damage.

Have we lost all perspective when it comes to the Middle East? Let us look at history here. Jerusalem is THE only major religious site to the Jews. The Islamic people have Mecca as their holiest site. Would they be willing to share Mecca with non-believers? Would they allow it to be under joint supervision? How about Bethlehem? Or, for that matter, would the Vatican allow itself to be jointly ruled? Of course not! The Islamic people do not pray towards Jerusalem. The Arabic world has not had Jerusalem as any major center or capitol for over 1200 years. When the Arabic world controlled Jerusalem, prior to 1967, all people were not allowed in to worship at their Holy sites. The Jewish religious sites had been desecrated and used as garbage dumps! Since Israel has taken over control of Jerusalem it has been cleaned up, all people are welcome to come and worship as they choose, Holy sites of ALL religions are respected and treated equally. Do you believe that people who would desecrate Joseph's tomb should now have control over other Jewish Holy sites? People who bar Jews from Rachel's tomb should now control the Jewish Holiest sites? Have the Israelis, at any time, desecrated any other religions Holy sites, for any reason? Look to history for our answers.

Why is it such a terrible thing when Israel bars Palestinians from coming into THEIR country to work when there are threats of violence against Israeli citizens? Would the United States allow thousands of Mexican migrant workers into its borders on a daily basis, taking away jobs from their own citizens, just to help the Mexican economy? Would France allow Germans in? What other country in the world keeps it's borders open to another country DAILY to allow their workers to come in and out?

What have the Palestinians done to fulfill their obligations with the Oslo agreements, while Israel has continued to give back land? What have they complied with that was their part of the agreement? How much does Israel have to give back before the Palestinians are required to show good faith? What other country in the world has continued to have to give back lands that they conquered during wars that they did not start?

When is it Israel's time for safety and security? Do you honestly believe that the Palestinians will be the safe haven for the world in the Middle East? These are people who have never had their own country. What have they done with the billions of dollars given to them to help build their nation? What have they done to improve the lot of their own people since the Oslo agreements? Are the refugees better treated? Are homes being built? What about their educational systems? Irrigation systems? Industry? What have they done to be self sufficient and productive? How have their people benefited so far from Arafat's government?

How can you possibly think that Israel could absorb this "right of return" issue? This is a tiny country with limited resources surrounded by enemies on all sides. Do you honestly believe that they should invite the enemy into their midst as well? Where could they put these people? The world not only asks them to give back lands, but now they also expect Israel to absorb all of these people - where? Physically and geographically - where? How can this possibly make sense to any leader of any country? What other country could absorb a sudden quantity of people like this?

When does the press begin to do its job and report the news OBJECTIVELY and not have it skewed in only one direction? How come we hear about the amount of Palestinian casualties without hearing what precipitated the action? Why do we not hear about the shootings in Jerusalem against Israelis? Why do we not hear about the live ammunition and molotov cocktails that go along with the rocks? Why do we not hear about the Palestinian aggression? Have you all forgotten who began this latest round of violence? Is it all right for all people who are frustrated with their lot in life to go out and begin campaigns of violence, condoned by their leaders? What kind of world would we live in if that were true? How many other people get frustrated with their conditions? There are always alternative solutions.

When do the world leaders begin to lead us down the path to peace and community? When do the world leaders begin to mend, not continue to separate, the differences between people? When does the United Nations take their role of NEUTRAL observers seriously? When does the United Nations begin to lead us out of the depths of despair and on to higher ground? When and where does this end?

It is time for our leaders to be leaders. It is time for the world to become one. It is time to stop pointing fingers. It is time for each person to begin to accept responsibility as a human being. It is time for people to look at each other as people - not by color, race, gender or religion. It is time for the Palestinians to accept responsibility for their own actions and to begin to act as the nation they say they would like to be. And yes, it is time to realize that Jewish mothers cry too.
 
Manedwolf said:
Actually, it dates back to when we got out noses stuck in that region in the middle of the century. Before that, they had no REASON to hate us.
Actually, you can "blame" the BRITISH for messing around in the region before US!!!!
 
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