Would you carry concealed, but not chambered???

[WonderNine]

If it has a manual safety such as a S&W, Beretta, 1911, etc.; or something with a heavy trigger pull like a DA revolver, then I have no problem carrying one in the pipe.

I seem to have more of a problem that there's the statistical possibility that the firing pin stuck while chambering the round or caused a dimple and now the gun is just a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.

I know, I think too much....

It is for that reason that I sold my MK9 and no longer own guns which I feel uncomfortable about carrying with one in the pipe in.

Is that really why you sold your MK9? I heard the trigger was good, but not THAT good. Must've been an elite model??? Be a cold day in hell before I'd get to handle one in our local junkshops. I've talked to them about it before and the gunstore guy in my second favorite shop said he tried to convince the owner to order a few Kahrs, but no dice so far...

 

[Alan Fud]

My MK9 ...

... was an EXCELLENT gun to shoot. More compact than a J-frame ...

... but holding more ammo. It was the gun that I wanted to love and to be my primary CCW but the lite trigger pull and the lack of a manual safety made me really uncomfortable with carrying it with one in the pipe.

When deep concealment was required, I found myself carrying a j-frame instead of the MK9 and finally just decided to trade it in.

 

[David4516]

I like to carry with one in the pipe, hammer down. Its nice to have a DA/SA gun for that, but even with a regular single action it's still alot faster to tumb back the hammer than it is to rack the slide... and you can do it with one hand...

 

[freewheeling]

Israeli Experience

Again, according to this post I read by an Israeli recently (and which I can't find) almost everyone in Israel carries unchambered with a full mag. That's mostly because this is the mode of carry they learned in the military, and as I recall his explanation of the reason has to do partly with the kinds of weapons that were used in the early years of the state (pretty unreliable), and because of a concern that some hot-headed kid would spark an "international incident." So the IDF carries unchambered with a full mag to this day, and so does most of Israel. I have to say that if it's good enough for them, it's probably a valid mode of carry even though only about 10% of Americans subscribe.

 

[freewheeling]

The drama of cocking.

cratz2:

I think the mention of racking the slide being agressive has been slightly taken out of context in which it was meant... The idea being that a shooter with a loaded (in the chamber) gun can potentially draw his gun in a stealthy manner to be extremely prepared while a person that does not carry with a round in the chamber needs to draw and then rack the slide in order to be extremely prepared.

I wonder if this explains why there's always a moment in cheap crime dramas where the actor manages to cock his weapon, even if it's a hammerless Glock. I've never been able to figure out how they do this. The magic of cinema, I guess.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Marko Kloos said it well on page one - -

I'd only ever carry with an empty chamber if I had to rely on a striker-fired gun like a Baby Browning.
Otherwise, chamber loaded.

Well written, Sir. My Bauer .25 is the only pistol I carry without loaded chamber. And I carry it about once a year.

Best,
Johnny

 

[DragonRider]

Didnt read all the responses, but you have to make a decision that YOU are comfortable with. When I first started out and played the mental what if I screw up. I carried my G33 and HK USP Compact 40 with no round chambered for about week. Lots of practice drawing with proper discipline will take care of worries. Like wise with holstering.

John

 

[McNutt]

I would say that you weren't ready to carry a gun at that point.

 

[Shootcraps]

ISRAELI EXPERIENCE

Unfortunately I don't have the training that the Israeli commandos have, so their methods don't apply.

Cocked and locked for me. You may not have that extra 2 seconds to rack the slide or like others have said, your other hand might be occupied.

 

[freewheeling]

Shootcraps:

Unfortunately I don't have the training that the Israeli commandos have, so their methods don't apply.

I take your point, but just for the record must Israelis who carry in condition 3 don't have commando training either.

Personally, I think I'd prefer decocked with a round in the chamber. The odds are approximately zero that a 7 lb trigger pull is going to result in an AD. I'd carry C&L but I'd just as soon not have two modes of carry, and given that more and more guns are being produced without safeties I might as well get used to that mode. There are probably some guns and situations where I'd carry in condition 3 though. I have a friend who carries his Kel-Tec .32 that way, because it's in a jeans pocket and he's concerned that something might snag on the draw. A valid concern, I should think.

 

[CASAMadman]

OMG!!!

Okay, I was only able to read about half of the posts before I couldn't stand it anymore, so please forgive me if I'm repeating what others have already offered.

If you're going to carry for SD, you had better have one in the pipe. If you are concerned about the safety of the gun and the possibility of it going off by itself, then you either know just enough to be a danger to yourself as well as others and probably shouldn't be carrying, or you are carrying a POS gun and definately shouldn't be carrying.

The primary safety on all weapons is the mind of their user. For handguns, the second safety is the user's trigger finger. Only after those two do you begin to look at the mechanical safeties on the weapon itself.

If you don't trust the gun, get one you do trust. If you don't trust yourself with the gun, get training until you do. If even after training you don't trust yourself.... start grazing the fields wearing a sheep costume but don't carry a gun.

I will never understand why people will get a gun for self protection and then not seek the training that will enable them to actually protect themselves. Too many times I've heard "I was in the military. I know how to handle a gun!" or "I grew up hunting, I know how to handle a gun!"

You know what, that's a bunch of BS. And for those of you who subscribe to the idea of "If I feel like I'm about to be in a situation where I'll need to use a gun, then I'll chamber a round..." then you are fooling yourself AND are a danger to yourself and others AND either need to go seek training or quit carrying a gun.

First of all, if you ever seriously think to yourself that you're about to be in a situation where you might have to use your gun, then you shouldn't be there and should practice avoidance, de-escalation and escape tactics first. If it is too late for that, it is also too late to chamber a round because your goose is most likely already well done. Not to mention that we should be avoiding places where there is a possibility for violence.

Too, in order to chamber a round, it will neccessary to draw your firearm from the holster. Like I said... if it's already go time and you need to shoot, it is already too late for you, but... if you're trying to get ahead of the game and beat the B/G to the draw (so to speak), then the law will come down on you because you were the one who brandished a weapon and chambered a round. Any lawyer worth ridiculing will be able to convince a court that you were the aggressor and YOU escalated the situation and YOU were the one committing the threatening acts which will make YOU the one going to prison.

I could go on but I'm sure I've already pissed off enough people and it's time for me to go home for the evening. So... I'll summarize.... buy quality gear (holster, mag pouches, Sure-Fire light, etc...), get quality training, put a round in the chamber and don't be a menace to armed society.

Much love, Ken

 

[CASAMadman]

OMG!! cont.

One more thing... I mentioned that I was about to go home for the evening. For those of you who just can't wait to bust my chops over my opinions and attitude, you'll just have to wait for tomorrow.



Still much love, ken

 

[Airedale1]

I carry........

...........a 1911. I carry it cocked and locked with one in the chamber. I wouldn't even consider carrying it any other way. It was designed to be carried so.

Here is a pic of what I carry and how I carry it:

 

[shooter1]

PAOL,
Is that a Charles Daly? Nice looking gun!!
Will

 

[macavada]

I've got a Kahr K9 - Black Stainless with night sites. Beautiful gun. Really a good trigger. But I'm just not confident enough to carry it with a chambered round. The fact that the trigger is so smooth and it doesn't have a safety just makes me a little nervous. I don't have a holster for it yet. Maybe I'll carry with a chambered round once I have a good concealment rig for it. Right now I carry it in my jacket pocket or in my rear waistband. Too loose for my comfort right now.

 

[Airedale1]

Is that a Charles Daly? Nice looking gun!!

No, it is a Kimber Ultra CDP Elite Sts II in a Milt Sparks Versa Max II IWB holster.

 

[243_shooter]

I had some concerns about carrying one in the pipe.. My father summed it up quite nicely to me;

"an unloaded gun is nothing more than a very expensive club with lots of moving pieces"..

To be honest it still concerns me, and had a big impact on my chosen carry weapon. I still can't get over the hump and carry a DAO w/ out a safety. I realize that it's probably all in my head, but Mr. Murphy hates me Strangely I feel more comfortable carrying a 1911 style pistol cocked and locked than I do a DAO pistol. Must be all those years I was a kid constantly getting "put the safety on" pounded into my head

I do agree wholeheartedly with everyone who has said get a good holster! A quality piece that securely holds the weapon, and protects the trigger well goes a long way towards providing peace of mind no matter what your chosen carry style.

I'd say carry however makes you comfortable. My personal choice currently is DAO with a mechanical safety. Just need to get about 300 more rounds downrange this weekend without incident and it'll be my 24/7 companion.


Leo

 

[shooter1]

PAOLO,
Just yanking your chain! I have one just like it, with the exception of the grips.

 

[CASAMadman]

Mode of carry

All,

When it comes to actually carrying a firearm concealed, it all comes down to quality. I will break it down to three aspects: quality of mindset, quality of equipment and quality of training.

As for mindset, I focus on how it relates to realm of self-defense. For me, I carry for self-defense purposes because I refuse to be anyones victim, no matter if the predator hunts of two or four feet. When carrying for SD, you must resolve certain issues with yourself first. Are you willing to do what is necessary to defend yourself with lethal force and are you prepared to continue to defend yourself in the aftermath of such an encounter? Mindset is the most important aspect of SD, whether you carry a gun, pepper spray or just a stick. Without the proper mindset, you will likely fail.

Next, there is the quality of training. Without training, you are kidding yourself. Do not think that because you grew up hunting or were in the military or even law enforcement that you don't need training. You do. I was all of those thing... been hunting all my life, did 4 year in the Corps with extended stays in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and was a police officer for 3 years and I thought I had all the tools I needed. After my first real training class with Options for Personal Security and James Yeager, there was no doubt that I had been fooling myself all along.

Last, there is the quality of equipment. This includes the firearm, the holster, the mag pouches, the ammo choice, everything. If you carry a $1000 gun in a $5 holster, I'll call you an idiot to your face. If you carry a $100 gun in a $100 holster, yep... you're still an idiot. I've also met some people who carry a quality firearm in a quality holster, but they load it with really hot bullets. I ask them, can you control that thing shooting those bullets with the added recoil? When I get "No, I practice with Winchester White Box bullets from WalMart. I hate shooting these hot rounds throught the gun... it hurts my hand, it's loud and the recoil is really bad" To that guy.... here's your sign...

If you're carrying for SD, that means your trusting your life with it. Is your life worth a $???? gun but not a training class half that amount? Because it is your life, you should invest in the quality items I mentioned.

As for the topic of the thread, carry a round in the chamber. Not being comfortable with it is not a good enough excuse. That means you either lack the mindset, the training or the equipment... or a combination of the three.

Don't be a menace to armed society,

ken

 

[Knives]

I carry cocked and locked with a round in the chamber all the time. I carry a 1911 now, but carried a Glock 30 the same way until recently.

 

[McNutt]

Well said, CASA. I agree that those carrying an unloaded gun are more a danger to themselves than those not carrying or carrying loaded. If you're going to rely on a gun make sure it's loaded. If you're not going to rely on it then don't bring it.