Old Dog
Member
Ah, no on both counts. If you want to get fired, at least put a gun in the holster. Empty holsters are empty symbols. I doubt that too many of us here object to OC, but most of us probably object to stupid gestures ...
Would you OC an empty holster?
- Thread starter Tirod
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The man I work for here in mississippi allows any of his employees that want to wear a pistol to do so.
He owns a hardware and farm store.
Open carry is legal in Mississippi.
Every now and then I exercise my God given right.
Now that better
He owns a hardware and farm store.
Open carry is legal in Mississippi.
Every now and then I exercise my God given right.
Now that better
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Correct.
The 'state' (state meaning any government) does NOT give you any Rights.
Neither the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights gives or grants anybody any Rights.
The Second Amendment does NOT give/grant us the Right to keep and bear arms. It protects that Right from infringement. Even without the Constitution and without the Bill of Rights and without the Second Amendment, we would still have that Right...it just wouldn't be recognized/protected.
Potatohead
Member
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- 5,375
I see what the OP is getting at but heres my problem:
Im the boss where I work (wholesale foodservice distribution) and I have to keep my customers happy. I wouldnt want my guys irritating our hard earned customers or my customer's customers by toting around holsters inside their building..So I couldnt do it myself.
Im the boss where I work (wholesale foodservice distribution) and I have to keep my customers happy. I wouldnt want my guys irritating our hard earned customers or my customer's customers by toting around holsters inside their building..So I couldnt do it myself.
Put yourself in your employer's shoes.
They're directly responsible for running a business/govenrment agency and are forced to cater to a broad spectrum of people and personalities. They have to work with others regardless of their personal or political views and are subject to the decisions and speculation of their CEO's, stockholders, insurance providers, legal office, political bosses, news media and general public opinion. Trying to force them to change policy towards such a volatile subject as firearms won't work and they really aren't under any obligation politically or Constitutionally to do it.
The workplace is a terrible place to try and force a change in social views regarding firearms. You're there to perform a service/put out a product and that's what they're paying you for. The best way and only way to do it is to develop a raport with your bosses emphasising the value of a policy change, allowing responsible employees to carry on the job. Figuring out who is anti-gun and who is pro-gun first would be a good way to start.
The protests though should be directed towards getting the positive attention of our political leaders and the general voting public. That's where the changes in perception will ultimately take place overall.
We must remember that we understand what the Second Amendment is all about but the majority of Americans are either vague about it, have no idea, don't care, or don't think it should exist.
They're directly responsible for running a business/govenrment agency and are forced to cater to a broad spectrum of people and personalities. They have to work with others regardless of their personal or political views and are subject to the decisions and speculation of their CEO's, stockholders, insurance providers, legal office, political bosses, news media and general public opinion. Trying to force them to change policy towards such a volatile subject as firearms won't work and they really aren't under any obligation politically or Constitutionally to do it.
The workplace is a terrible place to try and force a change in social views regarding firearms. You're there to perform a service/put out a product and that's what they're paying you for. The best way and only way to do it is to develop a raport with your bosses emphasising the value of a policy change, allowing responsible employees to carry on the job. Figuring out who is anti-gun and who is pro-gun first would be a good way to start.
The protests though should be directed towards getting the positive attention of our political leaders and the general voting public. That's where the changes in perception will ultimately take place overall.
We must remember that we understand what the Second Amendment is all about but the majority of Americans are either vague about it, have no idea, don't care, or don't think it should exist.
RustyShackelford
member
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- Apr 27, 2006
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- 4,018
Guns in the workplace, security issues....
Doing security work in different locations & details, I've seen the issue of firearms or weapon related incidents a few times;
A worker who got into a argument with a co-worker over tire rims/car stereos which escalated to into a threat of gun violence.
Workers or ex-employees who are terminated then scream threats/claim to have guns.
Workers who violate posted signs/SOPs/laws & keep loaded firearms in their personal vehicles.
Employees who were couples or dating that had domestic disputes/threats of violence.
Supervisors & mgmt that install panic alarms/alert systems due to workplace violence incidents(public service job/federal employment).
As gun owners & 2A supporters we need to understand that in the work-place, there are many different people from many different backgrounds. Not all workers or managers/CEOs share the same views or beliefs all the time.
Rusty
Doing security work in different locations & details, I've seen the issue of firearms or weapon related incidents a few times;
A worker who got into a argument with a co-worker over tire rims/car stereos which escalated to into a threat of gun violence.
Workers or ex-employees who are terminated then scream threats/claim to have guns.
Workers who violate posted signs/SOPs/laws & keep loaded firearms in their personal vehicles.
Employees who were couples or dating that had domestic disputes/threats of violence.
Supervisors & mgmt that install panic alarms/alert systems due to workplace violence incidents(public service job/federal employment).
As gun owners & 2A supporters we need to understand that in the work-place, there are many different people from many different backgrounds. Not all workers or managers/CEOs share the same views or beliefs all the time.
Rusty
Doing security work in different locations & details, I've seen the issue of firearms or weapon related incidents a few times;
A worker who got into a argument with a co-worker over tire rims/car stereos which escalated to into a threat of gun violence.
Workers or ex-employees who are terminated then scream threats/claim to have guns.
Workers who violate posted signs/SOPs/laws & keep loaded firearms in their personal vehicles.
Employees who were couples or dating that had domestic disputes/threats of violence.
Supervisors & mgmt that install panic alarms/alert systems due to workplace violence incidents(public service job/federal employment).
As gun owners & 2A supporters we need to understand that in the work-place, there are many different people from many different backgrounds. Not all workers or managers/CEOs share the same views or beliefs all the time.
Rusty
That sounds an awful lot like the general public, and an awful lot like the things that lawmakers must take into account when determining whether or not we should even be allowed to lawfully own guns, or carry guns.
Bobson
Member
There is an organization that's all about this very thing, except they do it on college campuses nationwide. The org is called Concealed Campus, and they're basically working to eliminate schools as "Gun Free Zones." They declare certain days of the year as "Empty Holster" days (link to their site describing this), where participating students are supposed to wear empty holsters to school as a way to raise awareness and protest the status quo. I honestly have no clue how effective it is, or if it accomplishes anything whatsoever, but I totally agree with the purpose and would not be opposed to getting involved.
But like others have said, while I could get behind something like this at a college, where there's really no possibility for serious repercussions, I don't think it would be wise to do at work, and I just wouldn't want to be a part of it.
But like others have said, while I could get behind something like this at a college, where there's really no possibility for serious repercussions, I don't think it would be wise to do at work, and I just wouldn't want to be a part of it.
There is an interesting thread on a woman who was OC'ing an empty holster while at her psychiatrist's office, where she expressed an interest in commiting suicide.
My interest in the subject was as a political protest, given it very well may be a trigger that would eventually cause me to lose the job. As many have advised, that may not be the best thing to happen in life.
On the other hand, it points out how cheaply we sell our rights, which is exactly what I'm trying to get people to think about. What our forefathers took for granted in the day, we now consider a privilege.
Ask the average citizen about whether it's legal to own a machine gun. Most will emphatically tell you they are illegal and will get you put into jail. Which is completely wrong.
Same with our gun rights - a lot of wrong ideas and concepts that create the problems. I pointed out in the thread on insurance companies that employers can and do allow carry on the job where it's been proven necessary. It's all about insurance rates, not actual employee responsibility.
You don't see squad rooms of cops pulling out there service guns in disputes over who got the last cup of coffee or a particular parking spot. An armed society is a polite society.
I never saw or had reported any gunplay among the MP's I supervised on active duty on deployment. Any particular employers concerns about internal conflicts are largely due to their lack of experience or competence on the subject. They never worked with employees who were armed at all times, how would they know?
They just bring in the usual reasons and use their authority to meet the bottom line goals. It's not about our civil rights, it's about the owner's profits.
What is interesting is that as each of us look to exercising our First Amendment rights on the subject, we keep running into other 2A supporters who advise us to just shut up and do nothing.
Don't carry in Chipotles. Don't carry in Starbucks. Don't be the wrong example, do it the way that won't reflect discredit on the issue.
The intent isn't wrong, it's the execution that differs, much the same as many other political issues. The end goals are the same - peace on earth, good will toward men. The methods differ. Some expect that we will never get along, but at least my gun will keep others from harming me. And the other side says just call a cop, it's their job. You don't need any gun ever.
So, we have some demonstrating publicly or on the job that is my gun, lump it, and others saying don't exercise your 1A rights or you are a tool and idiot. As some threads have been titled.
If you can't accept any show of protest whatsoever, then just exactly how do we demonstrate the civil disobedience that we are granted by our existence to overcome despotism?
Just because you can't doesn't mean it's the best decision for society as a whole. Plenty of people just accept things and try to get by. Tyrants and bullies count on it.
My interest in the subject was as a political protest, given it very well may be a trigger that would eventually cause me to lose the job. As many have advised, that may not be the best thing to happen in life.
On the other hand, it points out how cheaply we sell our rights, which is exactly what I'm trying to get people to think about. What our forefathers took for granted in the day, we now consider a privilege.
Ask the average citizen about whether it's legal to own a machine gun. Most will emphatically tell you they are illegal and will get you put into jail. Which is completely wrong.
Same with our gun rights - a lot of wrong ideas and concepts that create the problems. I pointed out in the thread on insurance companies that employers can and do allow carry on the job where it's been proven necessary. It's all about insurance rates, not actual employee responsibility.
You don't see squad rooms of cops pulling out there service guns in disputes over who got the last cup of coffee or a particular parking spot. An armed society is a polite society.
I never saw or had reported any gunplay among the MP's I supervised on active duty on deployment. Any particular employers concerns about internal conflicts are largely due to their lack of experience or competence on the subject. They never worked with employees who were armed at all times, how would they know?
They just bring in the usual reasons and use their authority to meet the bottom line goals. It's not about our civil rights, it's about the owner's profits.
What is interesting is that as each of us look to exercising our First Amendment rights on the subject, we keep running into other 2A supporters who advise us to just shut up and do nothing.
Don't carry in Chipotles. Don't carry in Starbucks. Don't be the wrong example, do it the way that won't reflect discredit on the issue.
The intent isn't wrong, it's the execution that differs, much the same as many other political issues. The end goals are the same - peace on earth, good will toward men. The methods differ. Some expect that we will never get along, but at least my gun will keep others from harming me. And the other side says just call a cop, it's their job. You don't need any gun ever.
So, we have some demonstrating publicly or on the job that is my gun, lump it, and others saying don't exercise your 1A rights or you are a tool and idiot. As some threads have been titled.
If you can't accept any show of protest whatsoever, then just exactly how do we demonstrate the civil disobedience that we are granted by our existence to overcome despotism?
Just because you can't doesn't mean it's the best decision for society as a whole. Plenty of people just accept things and try to get by. Tyrants and bullies count on it.
Willie Sutton
Member
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- Apr 28, 2013
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- 2,025
"So, how about a Wear An Empty Holster to Work Day?"
EXCELLENT idea. If you want to join the unemployed.
In my business, IF I didn't fire you on the spot (which would be my immediate reaction), yoour days would be numbered, I woulod remove you from any responsible position, and I would be looking for your replacement. I hire judgement and smarts. An employee doing this would show lack of both and unfitness for continued employment.
"As gun owners & 2A supporters we need to understand that in the work-place, there are many different people from many different backgrounds. Not all workers or managers/CEOs share the same views or beliefs all the time."
Frankly, the only people any capable manager cares about is the customers. It's our business to retain the ones we have, and to win new ones. The Business of America is Business. When you do business it's all about the customer. We keep politics away from the cash drawer. If you're not smart enough to figure that out *all by yourself* you're not smart enough to work for me.
"Don't carry in Chipotles. Don't carry in Starbucks"
Actually, do both. Do so discretely. Keep it to yourself. Just like your politics, religion, and sexual preferences.
Willie
.
EXCELLENT idea. If you want to join the unemployed.
In my business, IF I didn't fire you on the spot (which would be my immediate reaction), yoour days would be numbered, I woulod remove you from any responsible position, and I would be looking for your replacement. I hire judgement and smarts. An employee doing this would show lack of both and unfitness for continued employment.
"As gun owners & 2A supporters we need to understand that in the work-place, there are many different people from many different backgrounds. Not all workers or managers/CEOs share the same views or beliefs all the time."
Frankly, the only people any capable manager cares about is the customers. It's our business to retain the ones we have, and to win new ones. The Business of America is Business. When you do business it's all about the customer. We keep politics away from the cash drawer. If you're not smart enough to figure that out *all by yourself* you're not smart enough to work for me.
"Don't carry in Chipotles. Don't carry in Starbucks"
Actually, do both. Do so discretely. Keep it to yourself. Just like your politics, religion, and sexual preferences.
Willie
.
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No...it really doesn't.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
Tirod said:
Ask the average citizen any complex legal question and they will most likely not be able to give you the right answer.
Hell, the average member of this forum routinely gets firearms related legal questions wrong. Take yourself for example and this very same question. Is it legal to own a machine gun? Well, yes and no, depending on where you live and what paperwork you have submitted. So, the "average citizen" answer that it might end you up in jail isn't by de facto wrong.
That doesn't mean we've surrendered our rights. It means the law is complex and confusing, which isn't a new thing. There's even a whole profession of people to help the common man navigate the law.
Tirod said:
Well, there was that one guy who got killed for texting.
Maybe a murder/suicide every once in a while.
or maybe a little more often than that.
Tirod said:
You do know what "fragging" is right?
Tirod said:
Can you actually cite anyone here saying Zero activism, don't protest in any manner, be quiet?
Or are you just undertaking an massive engineering effort on that stawman of yours?
You don't have a "right" to be guaranteed employment there. My employer would not look kindly on me wearing rainbow ribbons either. No t-shirts and nothing promoting "any lifestyle"
America is as bad as you want to believe it is, you are still free to go find another job. And your employer should be free fire you if he wants to.
people throw around the term "freedom of speech" adn "rights" all the time. Your employer should have the "right" to "freely speak" the works, you are fired.
tuna
member
OC'ing a holster will only draw attention to what you're CC'ing.
browningguy
Member
Doesn't seem like a smart idea to me, so I'll pass. Why would I want to harass my boss? Texas is an employment at will state, so you can get fired for making political statements.
And no Tirod, you never lost me because I was never on whatever team you seem to think you are on. By the way, how many of the supporters of these political statements have served honorably in the military?
And no Tirod, you never lost me because I was never on whatever team you seem to think you are on. By the way, how many of the supporters of these political statements have served honorably in the military?
WestKentucky
Member
I have done it a few times. I'm the EHS manager so if I get a call somebody has been hurt or they have spilled some oil outside on the scrap pad. I have to go if I can so I end up at work in hunting gear, fishing gear, dirty, etc. I asked for it to be written in my offer letter that if I am armed and on my motorcycle that it is acceptable for me to unload the weapon and lock it in my desk. Haven't had to do that yet but I'm covered should it come up. I usually just leave the guns in the truck and go in and take care of business. This year was a really interesting opening morning of deer season. I was pulling a small deer up into the bed of the truck when the phone rang. I ended up at work, then at the ER in full blaze gear covered in blood with a holster for a scoped contender on my hip. One of my guys was hurt so I took care of him. My workers appreciate the fact that I work FOR THEM instead of the other way around, and after a couple of these trips they really feel bad making the phone call so they try a lot harder not to need to call.
gdcpony
Member
To all those who say they don't make political statements at work, I have a sort of thought for you: I worked a union job and around 2008 they were all wearing "Union for Obama" shirts. In fact, I was handed one and threatened with retaliation if I didn't support the union's view. I never wore it, and it became a sore point that I was not supporting the union so why should it support me?
So it's okay for them, but not for us? I wear my "I plead the 2nd" shirt (or similar) to every function I attend now in civilian attire. Usually these are off base so I carry too. Open just to make a point. Everyone seems to agree with my point around my shop.
So it's okay for them, but not for us? I wear my "I plead the 2nd" shirt (or similar) to every function I attend now in civilian attire. Usually these are off base so I carry too. Open just to make a point. Everyone seems to agree with my point around my shop.
Who said it was Ok? I don't think it is ok for "them" and I don't think anyone here implied that it is. How did you make the jump from saying dont wear a holster to work to I support forcing you to wear an Obama shirt?
I think most would agree what happened to you is wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't wear an empty holster to work to make a political statement
How come none of these issues are a problem in gun stores where all the employees open carry?Doing security work in different locations & details, I've seen the issue of firearms or weapon related incidents a few times;
A worker who got into a argument with a co-worker over tire rims/car stereos which escalated to into a threat of gun violence.
Workers or ex-employees who are terminated then scream threats/claim to have guns.
Workers who violate posted signs/SOPs/laws & keep loaded firearms in their personal vehicles.
Employees who were couples or dating that had domestic disputes/threats of violence.
Supervisors & mgmt that install panic alarms/alert systems due to workplace violence incidents(public service job/federal employment).
As gun owners & 2A supporters we need to understand that in the work-place, there are many different people from many different backgrounds. Not all workers or managers/CEOs share the same views or beliefs all the time.
Rusty
Stevie-Ray
Member
I've done this in a casino. Caused a bit of a stir. Locked the gun in the safe back at the hotel and went in. Was there for at least an hour, when a big Indian security guard asked me what it was. I said a holster. He asked, "For a gun?" "Of course," I shrugged. "Where's the gun?" he asked. "Back at my hotel," I replied, "They're illegal here." "So, you don't have a gun on you at all," he pleaded for assurance. "No, you can check me if you like," I assured him. No, that was OK, but I'll bet they kept an eye on me for a while after that.
It's just a Don Hume JIT slide and is rather small. Belt loops only, so it's easier to just pull the gun out and stash it, rather than practically having to remove my belt. Only incident in over 10 years, though I've done the same countless times in other places.
It's just a Don Hume JIT slide and is rather small. Belt loops only, so it's easier to just pull the gun out and stash it, rather than practically having to remove my belt. Only incident in over 10 years, though I've done the same countless times in other places.
IBEWBULL
Member
YES
I am not going to waste time un holstering to enter a post office or court house.
So I un-holster my 642 and stow it in my car. Do my business and return to
re-holster.
I don't think I would do it at the air port. TSA can over react.
I am not going to waste time un holstering to enter a post office or court house.
So I un-holster my 642 and stow it in my car. Do my business and return to
re-holster.
I don't think I would do it at the air port. TSA can over react.
short barrel
Member
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- Jul 8, 2013
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- 367
I think we are fooling ourselves to believe an empty holster or a bumper sticker or any other kind of symbol to express anything at all is silly. No one cares what we think. Any passive or inert statement achieves less than nothing.
I think that our right to carry needs no expression. I think we should carry our firearms as discreetly as possible and that we should never ever state by symbolism or any other method that we carry guns secreted on our person, or that we are so sensitive to the anti's that we must make some kind of statement.
At work, carry at your peril. If your employer says no, then you run the risk of termination by carrying. We must ask ourselves if we'd rather take the chance of carrying, or take the chance of not carrying.
I think that our right to carry needs no expression. I think we should carry our firearms as discreetly as possible and that we should never ever state by symbolism or any other method that we carry guns secreted on our person, or that we are so sensitive to the anti's that we must make some kind of statement.
At work, carry at your peril. If your employer says no, then you run the risk of termination by carrying. We must ask ourselves if we'd rather take the chance of carrying, or take the chance of not carrying.
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