Would you rather?

[Deaf Smith]

Bannock,

Dang good .22 that 70.

Jeff Cooper opined that for those who could not handle a serious defensive handgun then the .22 might be the answer. BUT he also said one needed to be good enough to hit in the eye socket at whatever range one had to shoot for the .22 has almost no stopping power.

That Beretta 70 just might give one that accuracy if they practice very often.

Deaf

 

[MCgunner]

Also, name one place where you could shoot someone that it would make a difference to have a 9mm instead of a .22lr…. in terms of stopping the threat as quickly as possible.

Center mass. Well, basically anywhere.

Me, I carry a .357 magnum.

 

[bannockburn]

HexHead

While I do enjoy most Beretta products the Tomcat for it's caliber and size would not be on my short list. Besides the OP was requesting our opinions on more rounds of .22 versus fewer rounds of 9mm.

Deaf Smith

Indeed my Model 70S has been an extremely capable performer with just about every different brand of .22 ammo I have put through it. With it's hard chrome finish I have often thought of it as the semi-auto version of S&W's venerable Kit Gun in stainless steel.

 

[2zulu1]

Also, name one place where you could shoot someone that it would make a difference to have a 9mm instead of a .22lr…. in terms of stopping the threat as quickly as possible. Both will penetrate the skull, both penetrate over 12" in ballistic gel, both will puncture vital organs… shooting someone in the forearm or similar area isn't going to stop them right away, regardless of caliber.

If it was 5 rounds .22 vs 5 rounds 9mm it would be an obvious choice. But right now I'm leaning towards having 8 chances of stopping a threat instead of 5. In a life or death situation I can't plan on being able to use a speed strip or speed loader.

Lots of comparisons work on paper, but not in the real world. Pocket revolver and confidence in first shot placement is an oxymoron, if, and reiterate if, you can draw from a pants pocket while you are aggressively moving and being shot at.

Eight shots fired of 22lr, what makes you think you'll be able to get 8 accurate shots off while being shot at. 22lr may or may not penetrate the skull, I was the IO of a suicide in which the muzzle of a 22lr was placed against the head and the bullet racetracked around the skull, necessitating a second shot. 12" of soft tissue penetration, that doesn't include intermediate barriers such as bone. In a lethal force confrontation, felons can be of large stature and firing angles range from frontal, to oblique, to lateral.

8 rounds of nuthin' is still nuthin'.

 

[19-3Ben]

I feel like doing a James T. Kirk and rigging the Kobayashi Maru here.

Awesome reference. I tip my hat to you.

My vote was for 9mm for all the reasons mentioned, and for the fact that while there are no black and white answers in life, this really is pretty clear cut. Considering that no matter how confident the shooter is, he never knows if he will have to take a shot from an unusual angle and need extra penetration, barrier penetration etc... the 9mm just gives that much more of a comfort zone.
My LCR is in .38, but I wanted the lighter weight gun. 9mm version is about an extra 4oz or so.

 

[jimbo555]

I have a lcr22lr and I voted 9mm. The edge is always with the larger bullet. My wife refuses to shoot anything larger than a 22lr so that's her gun! Me I prefer a 45acp.

 

[BLB68]

I voted 9mm, but I think the OP should go with .22 LR.

 

[marv]

You guys are missing something here. The LCR9mm doesn't use speedloaders or speed strips. It uses moon clips. 5 rounds are clipped onto a little spring steel disk. To load you open the gun, extract he empties, and dump all 5 in at once attatched to the clip. Faster than a speedloader and waaay faster than a strip.
Also, FWIW, the trigger pull is a lot heavier on the .22 than on the centerfire models.

 

[BLB68]

I keep hearing that the trigger is way better on the centerfires. I really liked the trigger on the .22LR LCR that I rented a while back, so now I'm itching to try a centerfire model.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

You guys are missing something here. The LCR9mm doesn't use speedloaders or speed strips. It uses moon clips. 5 rounds are clipped onto a little spring steel disk. To load you open the gun, extract he empties, and dump all 5 in at once attatched to the clip. Faster than a speedloader and waaay faster than a strip.
Also, FWIW, the trigger pull is a lot heavier on the .22 than on the centerfire models.

I guess I'm missing your point. The OP does not seem interested in carrying reloads, so moon clips (which I think most people do realize), speed loaders, or strips seems like a nonissue here.

What am I missing about your comment?

 

[DeepSouth]

I believe he was pointing out that the reload time on the 9mm LCR would be 1/10 of the reload time of a 22lr LCR

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Ah, ok....... yeah that's true.

 

[bikerdoc]

Welcome to THR Hammer059, you have been mentored by some of our most respected senior members. Whether you take that advice or not is up to you.

 

[buntline]

A closer look

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf


I ran into this several years ago, and if one studies it closely, a lot can be learned about handgun effectiveness. It might or might not change anybody's mind but does present a lot of things that should be factored in, not the least of which is that handgun velocities are not sufficient to expand the temporary wound channel by ripping like rifle velocities can and will.

On the few occasions I have had to defend myself with a handgun, caliber would not have mattered, because all I had to do was display, point and cock it. Never had to shoot anybody. A handgun does not assure us that we can defend ourselves, only that we have a CHANCE to defend ourselves.

Kind of like going to court. Nobody ever knows for sure how it will turn out....Joe

 

[M-Cameron]

i would only choose .22 if there was a significant size/ weight advantage in doing so, making it easier for me to conceal.....however, since you are looking at the LCR for both calibers, dont really see much benefit in doing so, personally.

i would personally carry the largest caliber i can shoot in a form factor that i can reasonably conceal.

a .22 does not carry a lot of energy with it....especially out of a snub nose revolver

personally if i were looking at the LCR, i would get the .357....even if i didnt like the recoil of the .357, i could always shoot .38

 

[Hammer059]

Thanks for all the input everyone, I really appreciate it.

It's always interesting to see how some people equate being new on a forum to being new to firearms. I assure you the latter is not the case. My reasons for considering .22lr in a CCW have nothing to do with being shy of larger calibers.

As someone correctly guessed, with my job and all the stuff I'm carrying around with me, it just isn't realistic for me to always have speed strips/loaders, moon clips, or extra ammo with me. Which is why capacity has some extra priority in this decision. I'm not an idiot though, I've been shooting both 9mm and .22lr about half of my life (I'm 22yo) and I'm well aware of the advantages of 9mm over .22.

Well, right now I pocket carry a .38spl (S&W 642) and although I love it and it's pretty wood grips, I'm trying to minimize the calibers I have to buy for, and since I have 3 other firearms in 9mm it just makes sense to trade in the .38 towards an LCR in 9mm; it's one less caliber I have to worry about purchasing and keeping stocked. Plus the moon clips are nice

So with that in mind, my current plan is to sell the 642 and put the money towards an LCR in 9mm. I'll keep a reload or two in my truck for my peace of mind, even though the odds of me ever having to reload (or the chance to reload) in a self-defense situation are very slim… It can't hurt. Maybe at some point I'll get an LCR in .22lr to go with it and keep in the truck as a backup, but for now I think I'll get the 9mm.

My next goal is to start reloading, I already have plenty of experience helping my uncle crank out .44 special in his basement, but I'll have to sell some stocks to get the equipment. I'm tired of paying ridiculous prices for ammo.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

 

[buntline]

I really encourage anyone interested in comparing handgun caliber effectiveness to read the link to the FBI wounding report I posted above. In the end, fewer differences exist than one would think for, according to the numbers.

I won't belabor the point, but it is well worth reading the whole thing befo0re making any decisions......Joe

 

[2zulu1]

There's been a considerable amount of research that's been accomplished since the FBI 1989 article.

Both of these books are highly recommended for any student of terminal ballistics: