horsemen61
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Title says it all guys would not on a daily basis or anything but occasionally thanks horsemen61
Would you shoot 125 grain jhp through a 586
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BobWright
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And why not? I've put thousands of 125 gr. and heavier through my 586s.
The 586 is, in my opinion, the best double action .357 Magnum to come down the pike, bar none!
Bob Wright
The 586 is, in my opinion, the best double action .357 Magnum to come down the pike, bar none!
Bob Wright
Salmoneye
Member
Not my favorite weight, but I have shot some through my 686, so I do not know why anyone would worry about shooting them through a 586...
Or any other good condition .357 for that matter...
Or any other good condition .357 for that matter...
buck460XVR
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With the right powders I'd shoot 125gr JHPs thru my 686s all day, every day. K-Frames with their less robust forcing cone shooting 125s loaded hot with slow burning powders were different. They are the reason the 586/686 was born.
km101
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I would not give it a steady diet of the 125's, (mostly because I like the heavier bullets) but a box now and then should not be a problem. At least it has not been for me in my 686 over the past 20 years!
Even though the 586 barrel is better supported, the top strap etch is horrible with 125's and they produce impressive fireballs. 125's shoot well and the recoil is not bad. I used to shoot them and I remember people moving away because of the annoying noise.
If you have them, go ahead and shoot them, just be aware of the nuisance factor.
If you have them, go ahead and shoot them, just be aware of the nuisance factor.
Casey C.
Member
I've never heard of any specific issues with the 586/686 with forcing cone issues from steady diets of magnum loads. As to the issue of the gun somehow "shooting loose" from a steady magnum diet, the L-frames are pretty sturdily built. I wouldn't be concerned. Shoot 'em if you got 'em.
Zaydok Allen
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I was under the impression that super hot 125 and 110 gr loads were the ones causing forcing cone damage and top strap flame cutting.
I don't think factory ammo is loaded hot enough for this to be an issue with normal use.
I don't think factory ammo is loaded hot enough for this to be an issue with normal use.
Nighthawk0083
Member
One of my favorite loads out of my 586 is 15 grains of 2400 and a 125 hornady xtp hp. Very accurate and manageable as I dont enjoy hot loads.
Happy shooting!
Happy shooting!
ArchAngelCD
Member.
The L frame was developed to deal with the high velocities generated by 125gr .357 Magnum ammo.
Lucky Derby
Member
What ArchAngel said.
Some history:
When the K frame .357s were developed in the 1950s almost all the available loads that were available were heavy bullet 140gr+.
In the late 1960s the 110-125 grain loads were developed and became very popular, particularly in LE. Cops started carrying the 125 grain load quite commonly. If they shot a few in their K frames and mostly practiced/qualified with .38 special loads, as most did, it really wasn't an issue. However some departments required quals and practice to be with duty ammo. I do understand and to some extent agree with the reasoning behind this. However the K frame really wasn't up to this task. The K frame was original developed as a .38 before 1900. Some 50+ years later it was beefed up into a .357. This was fine if you shot .38s or even even heavy bullet .357s most of the time. A lot of light bullet, full charge magnums and you get a cracked forcing cone.
S&W solved this problem with the L frame. It was specifically designed for a consistant diet of those light bullet full power loads.
Shoot those 125gr loads to your heart is content.
Some history:
When the K frame .357s were developed in the 1950s almost all the available loads that were available were heavy bullet 140gr+.
In the late 1960s the 110-125 grain loads were developed and became very popular, particularly in LE. Cops started carrying the 125 grain load quite commonly. If they shot a few in their K frames and mostly practiced/qualified with .38 special loads, as most did, it really wasn't an issue. However some departments required quals and practice to be with duty ammo. I do understand and to some extent agree with the reasoning behind this. However the K frame really wasn't up to this task. The K frame was original developed as a .38 before 1900. Some 50+ years later it was beefed up into a .357. This was fine if you shot .38s or even even heavy bullet .357s most of the time. A lot of light bullet, full charge magnums and you get a cracked forcing cone.
S&W solved this problem with the L frame. It was specifically designed for a consistant diet of those light bullet full power loads.
Shoot those 125gr loads to your heart is content.
I wouldn't go under 125gr. A couple years ago I shot a box of hot Fiocchi 110gr FMJ-TC Black Mamba out of my Ruger SP101 and that was enought to show some erosion in the forcing cone; my tought was: never again!
The same cartridge was able to totally erode the cylinder front of a S&W 340PD after few shots (however in that case the owner was the problem, not the gun...).
The same cartridge was able to totally erode the cylinder front of a S&W 340PD after few shots (however in that case the owner was the problem, not the gun...).
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Yes but the S&W M586 is not the Ruger SP101, the L frame will be just fine even with 110gr bullets.
The main problem with the 125gr bullets in the K frame was velocity. The older 125gr ammo was pushing the 125gr bullet to a screaming 1500+ fps and the forcing cone of the K frame was not designed to absorb that type of punishment. The SP101 is a small revolver, the M586 is not.
Yes and no,
The 586/686 isn't immune to forcing cone erosion, but unlike the K frame it has enough material to take a lot more erosion before it'll crack.
Run enough 125gr H110/ww296 flame throwers through it and any of them will erode and eventually crack.
I don't do 125gr flame throwers any more and if I shoot 125s it's at a sedate level my hot 357 loads are 172-180gr
The L frame was developed for police departments to solve the problem with forcing cone cracking with the 125gr JHP loads that law enforcement desired to use because of the superior stopping power of the round. LEO's wanted a revolver with lighter weight than the large N frame 27 and 28 but more durable than the K frame 19 and 66 which had the forcing cone thinned out on the bottom to fit the smaller frame.
You can shoot all the factory and factory equivalent 125 and 110 gr bullets you want in the L frame without worry of cracking the forcing cone. Light bullets loaded with lots of slow powder like H110/W296 and others will give your flame cutting in all revolvers. Flame cutting doesn't really damage the gun other than aesthetically.
You can shoot all the factory and factory equivalent 125 and 110 gr bullets you want in the L frame without worry of cracking the forcing cone. Light bullets loaded with lots of slow powder like H110/W296 and others will give your flame cutting in all revolvers. Flame cutting doesn't really damage the gun other than aesthetically.
gamestalker
member
I've been hearing horror stories about K frame FC's splitting since I bought my first 66 back in the 80's. Following some research in which S&W did extensive testing with suspect powder and bullet combinations, S&W stated that build up of bullet material in the FC was the culprit, thus causing excessive pressures to split the FC's.
I have run several thousand 110's, 125's, and 158's with 296 through both of my 66's, with no ill effects what so ever. I make sure the FC is free of any possible build up, all is good.
Shoot em, all you want, just keep an eye on the FC for build up, particularly if you shoot lead.
GS
I have run several thousand 110's, 125's, and 158's with 296 through both of my 66's, with no ill effects what so ever. I make sure the FC is free of any possible build up, all is good.
Shoot em, all you want, just keep an eye on the FC for build up, particularly if you shoot lead.
GS
After trashing one barrel with them when I was younger and dumberer I will never use them again. I don't "think" they will damage a forcing cone, I KNOW they will. Don't take my word for it, look at any of the Kuhnhausen revolver manuals for Colt, S&W or Ruger - they have some nice photos of trashed barrels and forcing cones from extended use of light fast loads. And I also prefer heavier slower bullets. Speed is WAY overrated.
BaltimoreBoy
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It's not so much the weight of the bullet.
AFAIK there are two other factors in play.
First, the lighter bullet is shorter in length so it clears the little jump it makes from the chamber to the barrel sooner. Presumably this means the expanding flash of the burning powder comes sooner and is I guess you would say 'brighter' or 'stronger' since it has been freed earlier.
Second, look at a reloading manual for 357. Take a bullet type and then check the charges for a powder - say H110. As you drop bullet weight, max allowable powder charge increases at least up to a point.
This is because as one decreases bullet weight, inertia decreases. That inertia will indirectly control the maximum chamber pressure reached. The lighter the bullet, the easier it is to get it to start moving, and the more powder can be put in the case without exceeding the pressure specification. So there is simply more powder - and more total energy (including the amount of hot gases generated) allowed in a charge for a light bullet.
That's why the max energy point of a cartridge is usually on the lighter weight bullets - but not the lightest. There is a point of diminishing return.
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