would you use you weapon to defend others?

[StuporDave]

It would depend greatly on the situation, but it general, yes. Say I could stop a violent crime, and looked the other way. How could I look at myself in the mirror if someone were seriosly injured or killed in a situation that I might have been able to stop?

Dave

 

[Jim March]

The situation that Atticus mentions is EXACTLY the type where a verbal challenge is called for. The bikers weren't crazy, and they KNEW what this looked like.

Had Atticus said "hey, what's going on?" in a firm, clear but NOT "emotionally loaded" tone of voice, what would they have done or said?

"This dude tried to kill a buncha people with a knife!" or similar.

"Whoa! OK, I'll call the cops - HOLD him!"

Would it have made anything worse? Of course not.

But if the bikers HAD been the bad guys? How would they have acted then to the same words?

Now granted, it wouldn't be safe to make this challenge unless you're adequately armed. That's a given. But done right, the challenge never makes things worse and rapidly sorts out who's who.

----------------------

One more thing: remember what I said about bigotry? Applies to anti-biker bigotry as well. I've known a number of cops who would have *instantly* been 100% convinced the bikers were killers, and might have reacted accordingly - held the bikers at gunpoint while telling 'em to shut up and let the lunatic run free.

 

[StuporDave]

remember what I said about bigotry? Applies to anti-biker bigotry as well

Thanks for mentioning that as it does exist, and for the most part unfairly. (although I am of the belief that if you look/dress/act like a thug you should expect to be treated as such, at least initially)

Dave (semi-mellowed biker-type dude)

 

[Devonai]

Here's an interesting take on getting involved. Back in 1998 I'd just come back from seeing the X-Files movie and stopped for gas. It was around 1am. As I step out of my vehicle two guys fighting each other came around the side of the gas station. For a couple of seconds I did nothing - it looked like a mutual disagreement - until one of the guys cried out "help!"

So I stepped in and broke it up. The presumed aggressor was flabbergasted that I got in his way and for a moment considered adding me to his list of targets. Then he realized that he was now outnumbered and the new guy had about fifty pounds on him. So he beat feet to his Suzuki Tracker and took off. As I'm memorizing the plates the other guy thanked me for helping him and told me the story. He was sitting in his parked car waiting for his girlfriend to come out of the store when the other guy (a complete stranger to him) tossed a lit cigarette butt through his open window. When he got out to confront him, he was attacked.

So the guy's girlfriend comes out of the store and sees his ripped t-shirt and bloody lip and starts freaking out. As he's trying to calm her down I suggest filing a police report. Meanwhile a guy in a biker jacket comes out of the store and starts listening in on this conversation. He had nothing to do with anything but decides to interject, "don't call the cops." When I asked him why not he said, "never call the f'ing cops, solve your own f'ing problems you wimp." He was obviously a bit tipsy. I told him that the incident was none of his business and to let the victim decide whether or not to call the cops.

Then the biker guy flips out on me. He says something along the lines of "you want know how to handle it? 'Cause I've got a knife and I'll cut your f'ing heart out." Now I have to decide whether or not I can draw my Beretta faster than he can draw his yet-unseen knife. I tell the first guy and his girlfriend to go inside, then I backed off slowly to the store myself. Oddly I couldn't think of anything else to say except to stare this guy down as I retreated for the interior. Memories of practicing a speed-rock floated through my head. Fortunately, he did not follow us inside, and took off in his station wagon when he saw me ask the clerk for the phone.

I had quite a story to tell the cops when I got there. The officer's take? "You shouldn't have gotten involved."

 

[Jim March]

Devonai: this is what is known as "having a bad day" .

Jeez, to encounter two complete lunatics within a span of minutes. Sigh.

Still, you did right BOTH times, and the net outcomes were fine. The cop may have been a grumpy moron but all he COULD do was grumble.

When the one guy in the fight yelled "help", that meant that the "both parties want a piece of each other" went out the window.

 

[Kodiak AK]

One more thing: remember what I said about bigotry? Applies to anti-biker bigotry as well. Jim March

Been there done that .

I was into my goth phase of figureing out life . I had just got done clubing with a bunch of friends in Ybor (Under age and wasn't drinking so I played DD.) I looked like I just walked out of the Crow , and a few of my friends didn't look much better . We went to a Denny's back in Bradenton and got the big table right by the door .I am sitting there waiting for my Grand Slam ,and these three preppy guys get up and run for the door . Dine and Dash in progres. I didn't care at all until the last one going for the door sluged the waitress trying to stop them as he ran past the counter .The Dine and Dash just turned into a strong arm robbery as far as I was concerned. Besideds I have a thing for punks hitting women.
In a flash I was up and at the door .You would be surprised how fast you can move in a black skirt.(At least I was tacticle.) One o the guys was at the car already , One was running for a strip mall , and the last guy stumbled a bit and it was just enough for me to pull a flying tackle on him. I have him down right in front of the door , and the manager is on the phone with the cops .His buddys ditched him and the sheriff's roll up and grab me off the guy and cuff and stuff , why getting ready to let the guy go , when the manager starts screaming "What are you doing?""That guy caught him." It took a few minuets for the employes to confirm I was the good guy here even though I didn't look like it , and everything got straightened out . I got free Breakfast and a phone number out of the deal so it wasn't all bad .

 

[Zach S]

I have in the past, however I have kept walking too.

Depends on what my gut says. Last time I ignored it, I found myself fighting my then-GF's ex and five of his buddies.

 

[Jim March]

One thing I remember from High School REAL well: the people that "looked weird" were NOT the dangerous ones. It was the ones that all looked the same as a buncha others you had to keep an eye on.

 

[P95Carry]

It was the ones that all looked the same as a buncha others you had to keep an eye on.

Good point Jim .... as exemplified by the best ''Con man'' .... why is he good? Because he seems ..so ...... so ...... well, nice and - ''normal'' !!

 

[Sam Adams]

Rule #1: Anyone's first duty is to protect themselves.

Rule #2: Anyone with family who depends on them (i.e. spouse and/or kid(s)) has a duty to remain alive and in a sufficiently good condition (physically, mentally, emotionally and legally) to be able to get up in the morning and go to work.

Rule #3: Anyone who has the slightest bit of decency has, IMHO, the duty to save the life of another person (or prevent serious bodily injury from occuring to them) if possible - i.e. if you don't violate rules 1 & 2. If I can reasonably, and with ample legal justification, stop an assault that is either deadly or obviously about to become so, I sincerely hope that I will do so - as long as the risk of making my wife and kids a widow and orphans is not too high. Of course, one can always take the view that you could be the next target of the goblin in question, so that acting on behalf of another person is an indirect means of self-defense.

I prefer to act in such a way as to be able to look at myself in the mirror and not be ashamed of the person I'm looking at. I would be very ashamed if I had the ability to save the life of an innocent person without undue risk to myself and, instead, didn't lift a finger (or a .45).

Regarding the politics of the victim - this is irrelevant to me. If it is a moral issue (in addition to a practical one), the only thing that matters is whether you can do something about saving the life of an innocent person. Besides, saving the life of an anti with a gun may turn that person into a pro-gunner (or at least make them neutral). That's no reason to save someone, but it would be cream on the cake.