Would your guns melt at 800 degrees?
- Thread starter Rembrandt
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Don't know...
But, even if the polymer didn't melt (which i'm sure it would, or at least deform), I'm pretty sure that that kind of heat would mess up or warp the metal parts. I could be wrong here because its just a gut feeling, but high temps are never good for guns.
But, even if the polymer didn't melt (which i'm sure it would, or at least deform), I'm pretty sure that that kind of heat would mess up or warp the metal parts. I could be wrong here because its just a gut feeling, but high temps are never good for guns.
FROGO207
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I am thinking that the serial number would melt if the cast frame melted. This would not happen as it is stamped in the subframe assy. on all polymer firearms. The plastic melting would not render the firearm untraceable and that is the probable reasoning of this law.
ok, so this got me thinking...
This clearly hinges on the definition or the word "melts", but the metals that would "melt" according to traditional definition would be:
Cadmium 610f
Lead 621f
Mercury -37.95f
Potassium 146f
Selenium 423f
Sodium 208f
Tin 449.4f
Zinc 787f
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-temperature-metals-d_860.html
So, since most of the above metals are not really the "metal" that comes to mind when you think "metal", it looks like the only metal that you might be able to make a usable frame from would be tin or zinc... maybe.
This clearly hinges on the definition or the word "melts", but the metals that would "melt" according to traditional definition would be:
Cadmium 610f
Lead 621f
Mercury -37.95f
Potassium 146f
Selenium 423f
Sodium 208f
Tin 449.4f
Zinc 787f
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-temperature-metals-d_860.html
So, since most of the above metals are not really the "metal" that comes to mind when you think "metal", it looks like the only metal that you might be able to make a usable frame from would be tin or zinc... maybe.
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General Geoff
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There are many newer guns with slides made from a zinc alloy "pot metal"... they might fail the test.
evan price
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This law was passed before we had polymer framed guns, it was specifically aimed at prohibiting the so-called "Saturday night specials" or "Junk guns" that were made often from die-cast zinc (Which melts around 800 degrees F.)
The law was never updated to reflect modern polymer pistols which most assuredly will melt at 800 degrees. Nylon 66 melts at around 500 degrees F.
The law was never updated to reflect modern polymer pistols which most assuredly will melt at 800 degrees. Nylon 66 melts at around 500 degrees F.
w_houle
Member
Didn't Lorcin make Aluminum framed guns to get around that law... I think they were the LT series?
Officers'Wife
Member
Interesting, I wonder if that would also apply to replica BP revolvers with frames made from aluminum bronze which melts at the 600-690 range.
Geneseo1911
Member
Illinois has this law as well. As mentioned above, it was to discourage so-called "Saturday Night Specials" (ain't good for 'nuthin cept put a man 6 feet in a hole...).
That is why we don't get the Lorcin/Jennings/Bryco etc.; and also why we can't get the Chiappa 1911-22. While I don't agree with the spirit of the law, ie denying arms from the poorest people who need them most, the banned guns are junk anyway that are only bought by people who don't know any better, or gunnie tinkerers who just want to try and see if they can make them run. It is as much a consumer protection law as an anti-RKBA law in practice.
Plus, nowadays people without much means can get a Hi-Point for the same money, which by all reports will run pretty reliably.
That is why we don't get the Lorcin/Jennings/Bryco etc.; and also why we can't get the Chiappa 1911-22. While I don't agree with the spirit of the law, ie denying arms from the poorest people who need them most, the banned guns are junk anyway that are only bought by people who don't know any better, or gunnie tinkerers who just want to try and see if they can make them run. It is as much a consumer protection law as an anti-RKBA law in practice.
Plus, nowadays people without much means can get a Hi-Point for the same money, which by all reports will run pretty reliably.
paintballdude902
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im pretty sure that heating any gun to 800f would ruin the tempering of the steel. i wouldnt want a gun that had been reheated that high
Mainsail
Member
I remember that law. The USAF sent me to Charleston AFB in 1987. I arrived with my new Glock 17 (#AY4XX) and it was quite unique back then. The local gun dealer there told me he hoped nothing went wrong with it since he couldn’t do any work to it, or sell them for that matter, due to the Saturday Night Special law. That’s what determined what a SNS was; the temperature at which the frame melted. He also admitted that I could sell it on the private market for more than it cost me new, $286. The law was changed, or so I heard, because SLED wanted to start carrying Glocks.
The reason for this law was, again as I was told, to keep cheap (cheaply made and inexpensive) guns out of the hands of the blacks.
The reason for this law was, again as I was told, to keep cheap (cheaply made and inexpensive) guns out of the hands of the blacks.
mgkdrgn
Member
Yep ... SC "Sat Night Special" law. Metal only, no poly frames need apply. SLED has a "list" they give you when you get your Retail Pistol Licence ... a list that was last updated in 1995!. From there you are left on your own to figure it out and protect your licence (and your $10,000 bond).
OP
OP
Rembrandt
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rmfnla said:
I've read this over and over and not sure that's the case....are they implying the "frame and receiver" are the same?, if so then it seems to refer to metal. It can also be read as "metal alloy frame" or "receiver which melts". (which would include polymer guns)
Maybe I suffer from dyslexia.....
Minn Saturday night special law reads almost identical:
".....frame, barrel, cylinder, slide or breechblock:
(1) of any material having a melting point (liquidus) of less than 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, or
(2) of any material having an ultimate tensile strength of less than 55,000 pounds per square inch, or
(3) of any powdered metal having a density of less than 7.5 grams per cubic centimeter.
Most states that have Sat Night Specials have similar laws and they are being upheld. Check out gunbrokers Chiapa or Puma sales and most will tell you which states they won't ship to.
".....frame, barrel, cylinder, slide or breechblock:
(1) of any material having a melting point (liquidus) of less than 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, or
(2) of any material having an ultimate tensile strength of less than 55,000 pounds per square inch, or
(3) of any powdered metal having a density of less than 7.5 grams per cubic centimeter.
Most states that have Sat Night Specials have similar laws and they are being upheld. Check out gunbrokers Chiapa or Puma sales and most will tell you which states they won't ship to.
Keep in mind that this only applies to the actual frame / receiver. I may be mistaken, but to my knowlegde all of the polymer guns still have a metal frame. For example, my kel-tec has an all aluminum frame surrounded by a polymer grip / housing. Aluminum melts at slightly above 1200F, so this seems to pass this legislation, albeit outdated. Keep in mind aluminum will not melt at this temperature, but the metal's structure will become weak and brittle at such high temperatures, but for the purpose behind this legislation that doesn't seem to matter.
There is some other places with similar laws, and the point of these laws was to define "Saturday Night Specials".
The term comes from the earlier term "Niggertown Saturday Night Special".
Which was used to refer to the type of guns even poor blacks could afford. Since it is primarily low income areas that have violent crime, it was primarily guns affordable to low income people that became associated with violent crime.
In some parts of the nation the low income areas were predominantly black.
The focus of some groups then became how to outlaw the poor man's gun without outlawing the others that would cause the middle class to defeat such legislation.
"Saturday Night Special" became a prime term, and then "Junk Handgun" to avoid the racist origin of that term.
It had nothing to do with safety of a particular firearm.
The guns that typically worked well with cheaper casting methods that made them affordable to poor people used low pressure rounds to be safe. The result was they were often chambered in .25 auto, .38 special, .380 and .22lr. So these calibers, and especially the .25 auto and .380ACP used for very little recreation became associated with crime.
The origin is clearly class based and racist.
Since legislators cannot get away with saying "the guns ******* and white trash are using" they had to define it more specifically. The result was looking for some definable difference the cheap guns and the more expensive ones had. They found that in a lower melting point.
Their class based agenda then could take on the appearance of "safety".
As many polymers designs with much lower melting points have shown, the melting point of the frame is less important than insuring quality components are used at a few key areas. While the rest can be "junk".
Since Glocks became extremely popular with police in the 80s and 90s, legislators could not extend the same limitations to polymer frames without clearly outlawing a reliable, popular firearm of clearly acceptable quality .
So polymers frames are not included in the limitations.
Ironically a Glock is cheaper to make than most of the old cheap cast firearms associated with "junk handguns". They just always have charged as much as competitive handguns to regular people (though they give deep discounts to LEO), so never became associated with "Saturday Night Specials".
Glocks and most polymer frames will melt around 400 degrees. Half the temperature.
People melt the grip to add designs or stippling with rather low temperatures. Just boiling water can soften the polymer enough to reshape it (or ruin the gun or make it unsafe)!
Here is a SIG put into the oven by a police officer to dry it out and forgotten when he got a phone call:
It started out looking like this:
The term comes from the earlier term "Niggertown Saturday Night Special".
Which was used to refer to the type of guns even poor blacks could afford. Since it is primarily low income areas that have violent crime, it was primarily guns affordable to low income people that became associated with violent crime.
In some parts of the nation the low income areas were predominantly black.
The focus of some groups then became how to outlaw the poor man's gun without outlawing the others that would cause the middle class to defeat such legislation.
"Saturday Night Special" became a prime term, and then "Junk Handgun" to avoid the racist origin of that term.
It had nothing to do with safety of a particular firearm.
The guns that typically worked well with cheaper casting methods that made them affordable to poor people used low pressure rounds to be safe. The result was they were often chambered in .25 auto, .38 special, .380 and .22lr. So these calibers, and especially the .25 auto and .380ACP used for very little recreation became associated with crime.
The origin is clearly class based and racist.
Since legislators cannot get away with saying "the guns ******* and white trash are using" they had to define it more specifically. The result was looking for some definable difference the cheap guns and the more expensive ones had. They found that in a lower melting point.
Their class based agenda then could take on the appearance of "safety".
As many polymers designs with much lower melting points have shown, the melting point of the frame is less important than insuring quality components are used at a few key areas. While the rest can be "junk".
Since Glocks became extremely popular with police in the 80s and 90s, legislators could not extend the same limitations to polymer frames without clearly outlawing a reliable, popular firearm of clearly acceptable quality .
So polymers frames are not included in the limitations.
Ironically a Glock is cheaper to make than most of the old cheap cast firearms associated with "junk handguns". They just always have charged as much as competitive handguns to regular people (though they give deep discounts to LEO), so never became associated with "Saturday Night Specials".
Glocks and most polymer frames will melt around 400 degrees. Half the temperature.
People melt the grip to add designs or stippling with rather low temperatures. Just boiling water can soften the polymer enough to reshape it (or ruin the gun or make it unsafe)!
Here is a SIG put into the oven by a police officer to dry it out and forgotten when he got a phone call:
It started out looking like this:
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mgregg85
Member
In reading that carefully it appears to only apply to those weapons with a frame/reciever made of metal alloy that has been die cast.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
"Melting point" laws are a backdoor way to outlaw so-called "Saturday Night Specials." 
Unfortunately this can backfire as any polymer frame will melt at far less than 800 degrees (typically around 400, easily attainable in a kitchen oven), the approximate melting point of most zinc alloys. Aluminum will definitely be severely compromised (loss of heat treatment or warpage) at that temperature, as would steel. In jurisdictions that adopted melting point laws, an exemption had to be made for law enforcement, who would otherwise have found many of their own sidearms banned.
Unfortunately this can backfire as any polymer frame will melt at far less than 800 degrees (typically around 400, easily attainable in a kitchen oven), the approximate melting point of most zinc alloys. Aluminum will definitely be severely compromised (loss of heat treatment or warpage) at that temperature, as would steel. In jurisdictions that adopted melting point laws, an exemption had to be made for law enforcement, who would otherwise have found many of their own sidearms banned.John Wayne
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Another SC law makes it a felony to posess "teflon-coated ammunition," under the guise that it somehow inherently defeats body armor.
IIRC, teflon was used as a coating on steel-jacketed bullets. The steel jacket defeated body armor; the teflon was to keep the jacket from wearing out the rifling.
IIRC, teflon was used as a coating on steel-jacketed bullets. The steel jacket defeated body armor; the teflon was to keep the jacket from wearing out the rifling.
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