wow, my rifle did NOT like hornady 6.5C 140 grain match ammo

[evtSmtx]

- Rifle is an Aero Precision 6.5creedmoor, 24" bbl, rifle length gas system and rifle buffer

- ammo rifle likes: Winchester 6.5C 140 gr hpbt match
- ammo rifle hates: Hornady 6.5C 140 gr ELD match

I had about 25 failures to eject in 20 rounds. Ok, I exaggerated a bit there but the true number was about 6 FTEs. This was with the plastic tipped hornady match bullets. when the failure happened usually the bolt smacked the case neck into the side of the ejection port - ruined. I would have more than one tear in my beer if that were norma brass.

BUT, on the other hand this gun just loves the winchester match ammo which has the same bullet weight but no plastic tip. It ate 20 of these before and another 20 after the hornady fiasco.

Has anyone had an experience like this? I'm not trashing hornady but I'd like to understand why this happened if I can. I have a box of 100 of these bullets on the reload bench.

 

[ontarget]

Was it factory loads or handloads?

 

[Swede]

Kind of makes you wonder if its a little on the hot side?
Other than that, how do you like the 6.5?

 

[Txhillbilly]

Hornady factory 6.5 CM ammo is always on the hot side of powder charges. The problem is your gas system,it's over gassed! You need to install an adjustable gas block on it,then you can tune the gas system to the ammo that you're using.

 

[dh1633pm]

Don't have a semi, but mine loves them on the hot side. Haven't tried the factory load. Could be overgassed like Txhillbilly says. I had an AR once that had that issue. I took the buffer apart and added some weight. It worked.

 

[evtSmtx]

factory rifle and factory loads

since I don't want to fiddle with an adjustable gas block right now, I'll take the route of tuning some loads to find what works well with that bullet

so far I love the rifle and the hornady loads are accurate when they make it into the chamber.

thanks for the advice

 

[243winxb]

Google Superformance in Gas Operated Firearms. http://m.hornady.com/ammunition/superformance-in-gas-operated-firearms

 

[evtSmtx]

thanks 243winxb

 

[Llama Bob]

Does the ELD match use Superformance powder? I thought it used H4350 or IMR 4350?

 

[evtSmtx]

No idea from here. The box is at home. Do they say what powder they use on the box?

 

[MCMXI]

- Rifle is an Aero Precision 6.5creedmoor, 24" bbl, rifle length gas system and rifle buffer

- ammo rifle likes: Winchester 6.5C 140 gr hpbt match
- ammo rifle hates: Hornady 6.5C 140 gr ELD match

I have the complete opposite experience finding that the Winchester is terrible in my 6.5 CM (AI AW with Bartlein barrel) but the Hornady 140gr Match is outstanding. I'm shooting the older A-MAX stuff rather than the newer ELD bullet.

Hornady factory 6.5 CM ammo is always on the hot side of powder charges.

I've found Hornady 140gr Match ammunition to be somewhat anemic in my rifle with MV around 2,700 fps which matches the MV stated on the box. I'm safely pushing Hornady 140gr A-MAX and ELD bullets to 2,900 fps using Hornady brass, Reloder 17 powder and Federal primers.

 

[MCMXI]

No idea from here. The box is at home. Do they say what powder they use on the box?

The powder used isn't listed on any of the boxes I have.

 

[Llama Bob]

No idea from here. The box is at home. Do they say what powder they use on the box?

Some boxes they do. The lot of 140 AMAX I've got sitting around lists H4350 I'm 99% sure (not at home right now). That's definitely the "right" powder to get a temp stable 6.5CM load.

I'm sort of assuming the ELD load is the same since it's a direct replacement using an equivalent bullet from an interior ballistics perspective, but I've never looked into it. Historically most of the Superformance powder loads were explicitly sold as such.

 

[MCMXI]

Some boxes they do. The lot of 140 AMAX I've got sitting around lists H4350 I'm 99% sure (not at home right now). That's definitely the "right" powder to get a temp stable 6.5CM load.

I bought 30 or so boxes of Hornady 6.5 CM 140gr Match less than a year ago from Midway and none of them have powder information on them which surprised me since Hornady made a big deal about it when they launched the 6.5 CM.

 

[243winxb]

Box of bullets with load data. This powder may be on the slow side for burn rates, for an auto??? Guy at club is using Reloder 15 for 6.5 creedmoor in a bolt action Savage

 

[Gtscotty]

I've read that the 41.5gr load that used to be on the Amax boxes was a recommended load to match the factory ballistics, but that it's not the actual powder or weight used in the factory ammo. The factory ELD's have been awesome in my rifle, but I've talked to some guys at the range that have had good luck with the winchester as well.

 

[evtSmtx]

no load data on my boxes. I'll do a test series this weekend and work up with hornady brass, ELD match bullets and H4350 and see how things go.

 

[MCMXI]

Box of bullets with load data. This powder may be on the slow side for burn rates, for an auto??? Guy at club is using Reloder 15 for 6.5 creedmoor in a bolt action Savage

Yeah, that photo was taken in May of 2010. I spoke with a Hornady customer service agent this morning and he explained that Hornady stopped listing load data on 6.5 ammunition a couple of years after the cartridge was launched. He explained that Hornady stopped the practice because 99.9% of the powder used by Hornady isn't available to consumers in loose form (no surprise there), and that Hornady inadvertently caused a huge shortage of 4350 powder that still exists today. The bottom line is that Hornady no longer lists load data on 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition. On a side note, the agent mentioned that Reloder 17 is an excellent powder for 140gr ELD bullets and is nowhere near as temperature sensitive as many claim it to be. I mentioned that I shoot in temperatures ranging from 0F to 90F and have no problem at all with RE17, just Hornady brass!

 

[Llama Bob]

So the people, including myself, who have MEASURED the temperature sensitivity of RL17 to be one of the worst of all powders in current production are wrong?

I don't think so.

RL17 is a powder for people who care about velocity but not if they can hit anything at long distance. It's not uncommon for the cold to warm chamber vertical spread to be bigger than the target at 1000y with RL17. But if you want to load with RL17, go right ahead. More for me. I'll use the right powder (H4350) and enjoy an actual accurate load.

 

[MCMXI]

Llama Bob, I'm not going to get into another argument with you about what you think does or doesn't work well. I spent two years at Remington as an ammuniton R&D engineer and currently work for another major firearms company, consult for a bullet manufacturer and test products for another bullet manufacturer. I'll be fine.

 

[Llama Bob]

Got it, so all the people who have measured the behavior of RL17 are lying and you alone know the truth.

Laughable.

 

[MCMXI]

You clearly seem to know all there is to know about this so which firearms or ammunition company is lucky enough to have you on their payroll? PM me your resume. We're looking for more engineers.

 

[Llama Bob]

I've just measured the temperature sensitivity of various 6.5CM powders. RL17 is far and away the worst of the reasonable choices. To give you a comparison I show a temp sensitivity of .24 FPS per degree for H4350 and 1.55 FPS per degree for RL17 shooting 140 AMAXs in my gun. Those numbers are very close to what other people get.

Frankly I think you talk a lot and have little if any information to offer. If you have actually measured the temp sensitivity, feel free to post what your number is. If not, I'd suggest you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[MCMXI]

Frankly I think you talk a lot and have little if any information to offer. If you have actually measured the temp sensitivity, feel free to post what your number is. If not, I'd suggest you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

At Remington we had the proper equipment to test powders under a variety of conditions, equipment that very few hobbyists could afford. Unless you have Doppler radar, SAAMI compliant test barrels, universal receivers, machine rests, tranducers running under a LabView interface, thermocouple controlled cooling and heating containers, a chem lab and representatives from the powder industry on hand for discussions I don't give a crap what you think you know.

 

[Llama Bob]

For those wondering how that equates to trajectory, a 50 degree shift in propellant temp with RL17 works out to about a 20 inch move in point of impact at 1000y. It's very easy to get a 50 degree shift just between a cold chamber and a warm chamber, let alone a cold vs. warm day.

So RL17 is great if you're looking for 2+MOA accuracy at long range. If you actually want to hit things smaller than a 4MOA plate at that range, I'd suggest H4350. It will have about a 3" POI shift over the same temperature range. 0.3 MOA vs. 2 MOA. It's up to you