WTD - Bad Dogs

[Monster Zero]

I had posted a thread in the revolvers forum about something I was considering as a defense against bad dogs. My idea didn't go over well. Cool. I appreciate the feedback.

I still have a question, though.

Suppose that during a day I visit properties that might have bad dogs living either next door, or nearby.

What's the best means to defend myself against a dog attack? This is serious. These are the rules:

No dog sprays, etc. I can't guarantee which way the wind's going to be blowing.

No long guns.

I'd really not rather sacrifice my left arm so I can disembowel dog number one with the knife I would hope to have in my right hand. Besides, how does that account for dog number two?

I'm open to all suggestions, but that seems to narrow it down to a concealed handgun, which presents another problem:

NO CIRCUS SHOTS. IOW, I can't assume that I can hit a fast-moving dog with a bullet, especially if he comes at me with little, or no warning. Hence my previous question about a particular piece loaded with shot.

Anyway, same question here:

I'm out working, minding my own business, carrying tools around running machinery, etc, and the two pit bulls on the property to the south find a way thru the fence and decide that I'm lunch.

What to do, and how to be prepared for this particular threat?

Comments invited again.

TIA

 

[ArmedBear]

Throw them some dog treats.

And if you think you can stop a dog that REALLY wants to attack you with a shot other than CNS you need to do some reading.

And furthermore, if someone shoots at my dogs on my property, I have to assume he's coming for me.

Nobody is going to stop and ask exactly who all you're planning to shoot, once you've opened fire on his property. Would you?

 

[jeffmack]

There is a book about Delta Force by a guy named Eric Haney. He was an operator. He said when he was a kid, a delivery driver taught him to fill a squirt gun with ammonia, and then put a bit of tape or a band aid over the muzzle to prevent drips in his pocket. He said a squirt between the eyes on a mean dog would stop it in its tracks.

I heard a story recently, third hand, about a local mailman that carried one of those police style, collapsable "asp" batons. Apparently by retirement he had a rather impressive kill score on aggressive dogs.

I cannot vouch for how well the two stories above will actually work, but I can say that I have tried to use pepper spray on mean dogs, and it was highly disappointing.

 

[geronimo509]

Dont hate me for saying this but how about a taurus judge, im pretty sure 45 LC and 410 shot shells. 2 shot shells first. if that doesnt get them running away I hope you dont miss with the rest.

 

[Titan6]

A police officer posted here some time ago about a shooting where he hit an aggressive dog (pitbull) with four rounds of 00 buck CM and the doggy lived and still had some fight in him. If you want to go with a handgun that might be something to keep in mind.

 

[punkndisorderly]

Pepper spray is going to be your best bet. Seriously, a little backspray is not a big deal compared to a serious bite or mauling. Using a firearm is just asking for legal trouble unless it's on feral dogs out in the country. If the cops don't get you, the owner may (either in court or on the spot).

Other advantages of pepper spray:
-you can carry it in your hand ready to use. (can't do that with a gun)
-it's temporary, so no having to explain why you shot fifi to the owner/police
-easy to carry with you wherever you go
-works wonders on overly aggressive bums I've been told

If you just can't get over the possibility of a little backspray, your next best bet would probably be a good ASP (collapsable baton) or walking stick. Better than nothing or using a kinfe, not as good as pepperspray.

Come to think of it, they used to make tasers for animals. Might look into that.

 

[geronimo509]

that just happened in my town, 2 rottweilers attacked a man and when police came they ran at them, they each got 2 shots of .40 and they lived. Im not sure about having any fight left. i think they hid behind some cars until animal control came and got them

 

[YammyMonkey]

When I was growing up one of our neighbors had a couple nasty dogs- a small Poodle & a big Golden Retriever. I Don't know what the deal was but both of them were flat out hostile. I tried the amonia in a squirt bottle trick on them at one point & it didn't have any effect. If it won't de-motivate a small Poodle & a Golden I seriously doubt it'll do much to stop any other dog.

 

[qwert65]

well chances are they wouldnt do anything, but if they do it really depends on 1 how soon you see them and 2 how big they are ie the 40lb kind or the bigger then 60lb kind. if its the littler kind and you can climp on something with a shovel or pipe you might be ok depending on when you see them. if they are bigger it depends how big your machine(if availible) is bc they can jump pretty high.
In all honesty though defending against 2 dogs like 2 guys is way more difficult then 1. though with dogs and most ppl if they sense you are not afraid they will 99.9% leave you alone if they are not on their property.
In summary carry a stick if you don't have a tool that you can use as a club, be aware and dont worry about it

 

[mgkdrgn]

Dont hate me for saying this but how about a taurus judge, im pretty sure 45 LC and 410 shot shells. 2 shot shells first. if that doesnt get them running away I hope you dont miss with the rest.

Works for me. 5 rounds of 000 buck should get the job done just fine.

 

[Monster Zero]

Armed Bear, please read my post again.

To spell it out, this is a hypothetical self-defense situation in case I'm attacked while I'm out doing my job by dogs who live "nearby" or "next door".

This is not premeditation to go somewhere and harm somebody's dogs. A post to that effect would be in violation of the policy outlined in the "bloodlust" sticky in this forum. Just for the record, my own inclination would be to let them go their way and I go mine.

Thanks.

 

[moooose102]

a cute female in heat! lol. a couple of big steaks, or a more serious soulution, a catlle prod.
a baseball bat. but what ever you do, if you kill the dog, especially in a residential setting, the dog is probably going to have to sink its teeth into your flesh before you kill it. then, it would be a true self defense situation.
if the dog comes out and barks ad growls at you, and scares the cr^& out of you, that is not self defense.
once its teeth are in your flesh. pretty much anything that is legal goes (meaning if you are carrying concealed without a permit, where a permit is required, that is not legal).
being a lifelong dog lover,there are a lot of dogs out there that will scare the heck out of people, some more than others. but a truely viscoius dog is not good for anybody.
some dogs have been trained to detain (like a police dog) and that is fine in the situation that it is intended for.
but people that purposly train, or have their dogs trained to attack and kill are just a menace to scociety.
if you kill a dog, however it is done, just remember that just like humans, there is going to be a possibility of a law suit. if the dog has its teeth in your flesh, you will probabaly win, but if it is growling and barking, you had better be prepared to get out your checkbook!

 

[phonesysphonesys]

When I worked for the phone company in
Washington, D.C. I used wasp stopper spray. It has a long steady stream. It really stops mean dogs. It doesn't kill them but they don't come back for more. I would come back to terminal weeks later and they would remember me.

Semper Fi

 

[ArmedBear]

You'd just better be damned sure where the property line is. It's not your property, either way, or so it sounds. You wouldn't want to kill a couple of dogs and end up full of 00 Buck.

I said nothing about blood lust, though the inference wouldn't be unreasonable. Like I said, do some reading. Shooting a dog is one of the least desirable or effective ways of stopping an attack, for many reasons.

 

[glockman19]

Get a cattle prod. give them a 50,000 volt. the dog will cower from you whenever he sees you.

 

[ArmedBear]

The only problem with a cattle prod is that you have to hit your target. You don't have to be as accurate as with a firearm, but it's still a consideration.

If you haven't already seen this video, check it out: http://www.funny-games.biz/videos/214-policedog.html

Could you stop one of these dogs with a pistol, or a prod, or a bat? They're not even big dogs (i.e., small target).

Pepper spray seems like a good option. Depends on the dog.

 

[mbt2001]

Use the dog pepper spray... It is humane and will avoid COSTLY legal BS.

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

what about a judge loaded with rubber shot?

 

[Shenanigans]

What about bear mace? I would think that if it's designed to keep away an animal that big, it should work relatively good on a dog.

Here's some for under $40 and it sprays 30ft. At that point, you could fog them from farther away and possibly ready a baton or walking stick to defend yourself some more if need be. I would assume they'd be slightly hurting from the spray as well, which would make it easier for you to subdue them and/or remove yourself from the situation.

 

[Richmond]

cattle prod

The only problem with a cattle prod is that you have to hit your target.

I am not sure that is the only problem - the other problem I see is that you have to carry it around with you.

Ideally, your defensive measure is something you can have with you and easily usable 100% of the time, and I don't know if a cattle prod fits the bill. Are they small and portable enough? A situation with an aggressive canine, like other self defense situations, often comes by surprise.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I am not sure that is the only problem - the other problem I see is that you have to carry it around with you.

AND you have to let the dog get close enough that you ARE going to be bitten before you can employ it ... and if you are being bitten when employed YOU are going to get shocked as well.

Far far far from an acceptable solution in my book.

 

[Texian]

What about a Dazer?

The Dazer dog deterrent is a highly effective device for anyone in a situation that meets uncontrolled canines. It produces a fixed high frequency ultrasonic sound that will force aggressive dogs to keep their distance and is also effective against coyotes.

http://www.dazerii.com/

 

[Grey_Mana]

Dog whistle, dog treats, confident deep voice. Build the rapport, shower them with food and positive attention.

Won't work on well-trained dogs, but they usually aren't a problem for law-abiding folks.

You're probably better off cruising an internet forum on bad dogs than THR, if you really want info on handling dogs.

 

[Armed N. Free]

Oh Boy....Bad Dogs! My favorite

I'm a letter carrier and I deal with 'em every day. I wish I could carry, but my laws of employment make it illegal and I fully comply.

In general about dog attacks - I think it's been stated pretty well. It's all about attitude - yours and the dog's. The dog uses body language just like humans do. Most dogs bark and charge but don't bite. They deter, detain and intimidate. Most dogs are more likely to attack and bite another animal than they are a human. The one that will get you are the quiet, sneaky ones and dogs in groups. Of the times I've been bitten, it's been with little sound or warning, always from the side or behind.

Dogs don't like eye contact. They consider it threatening. Just before biting, most dogs will go head down, turn slightly away and look at their target from the corner of their eye, a side shot. Passive aggressive. You're about to get nailed!

Guns are not too great against dogs. Small, rugged, fast targets are no fun. They make good shooters look silly. You're probably going to let several rounds fly before wounding but not killing the dog. Now you have collateral damage and a really pissed off, dangerous dog.

Confidence, a loud voice and distractions are all good. Treats sometimes work to let you get away. Pepper spray is minimally effective unless it Saber which contain CS as well as Caspacin. This is good because the gas continues to fume into the face from the surrounding fur. Wind is a consideration of course. The Dazer or other ultrasonic devices are very good - probably more effective that just pepper juice.

A short club is good but you're probably going to be uncomfortably close to the dog before you can use it. I have thrown treats, sprayed in the face and still had to literally jack boot the thing in the eyes on several occasions. I have some light scars and torn clothing from the experiences.

If talking about a walking staff. Might I suggest some of the martial arts catalogs - or you can make your own if you're handy. A 5 foot staff with a 12 inch removable sleeve is a great way to convert a staff into a double-edged pike - very useful in self defense!

Now my experience with the legal angle. I don't know exactly what your work requires you to do or where it takes you. Let's go with three scenarios which only apply to being able to carry (this is apparently your intention)

#1. You're transiting on public property and are attacked by dog(s). Find out what the local law is on discharging firearms. If OK then act as you would against a human attack while CCW. The legal proceedings will be pretty much the same (in most towns); police respond, they take a report, may or may not impound your gun, may or may not take you to the station. At any rate, if shots are justified, owner will have no recourse.

#2. You're on an owner's property by invitation / service call to do some work. They should have been advised and are complying with your request to restrain their animals. If not, you leave. If the animals somehow get out while you're working, it can get tricky. If dog's come onto property from somewhere else, see #1.

#3. You're on an owners against wishes / or uninvited (serving summons, repo, etc.). Property is probably already posted and the dogs are protected unless you're LE. If you're uncomfortable about the presence of anti-theft tools with teeth, you need to stay away. You just can't work there.

A lot of us have been attacked where I work and it seems the homeowners insurance has paid out pretty well, but you have to get bitten pretty badly before anything is done about it.

 

[meef]

I work for a public agency.

My job has changed to where I will be on every rural driveway (still in the public right of way) we have - and there are many thousands of them.

Lots and lots of those good country folks have dogs. Some have only one dog, some more than one dog and some of those are big to really big doggies. Rural residences frequently don't have little niceties such as fences to contain their animals, being as they don't feel they need them what with living in the boondocks and all.

The majority of dogs are going to be your usual moderate tempered canines and pose little to no threat when encountered.

The law of averages dictates that a few are going to be somewhat to extremely aggressive.

Mentioning this to my supervisors and my concern regarding same resulted in a seminar on handling aggressive dogs being given by our senior animal control officer - a veteran with over 20 years experience.

One useful point that was made was having something to "give" the dog to bite rather than your hand, arm, leg, butt... whatever. He stated that his people never got out of the vehicle without a metal clipboard. This gives them something to put between them and the dog for it to chew on and play tug of war with while they decide what their next course of action will be. It was also suggested that an ASP baton with a bear spray backup isn't a bad combination.

Just a thought to mull over.