ww2 machine guns to be destroyed, along with this guys rights

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While we all know that the Second guarantees the right to keep and bear arms and shall not be infringed.

Sorry, but it doesn't guarantee anything.

Only the people, possessing their arms, are the guarantee of freedom.

Self-defense, and the right to keep and bear arms, are natural rights, deriving from our Creator. If you read some of the discussion that arose during the enactment and ratification of our Constitution you will find that the real "hard liners" felt that it wasn't necessary to delineate the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, due simply to the fact that they felt that these were "self evident" and that the governmental imprimitur would lead to a misunderstanding as to the origin of those rights. In retrospect, it looks like they had a cogent argument.
 
Somebody dropped a dime on this guy. The idea that this was random is pretty far out. A courtesy search is what? What was the probable cause for searching the back of a Jar-Tran driven by a 67 year old man?
 
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Grenades vs. Nukes

I must say that I think we should be able to have grenades, I mean, why not? Sure, regulate and license it similar to full-auto weapons (but come on, make it a little more reasonable price wise to get one). However I feel nukes are a different issue.

I know there becomes an issue of where to draw the line but when we start talking about items we are trying to ban countries from having, I don't think the average homeowner should have one. I mean it's not like we are trying to get N. Korea to ban grenades.

However if I have enough room to safely detonate a grenade, I know I would probably enjoy it. However I don't think they should be as easy to get as a gun.
 
However if I have enough room to safely detonate a grenade, I know I would probably enjoy it

amen to that, they should be regulated, and harder to get than a regular gun but we should be allowed to have them "Give me liberty, or give me death!"
 
i think its kinda funny that some people here think the government doesn't need SWAT Teams but individual citizens need grenades and nuclear weapons.....

So by your line of reasoning I should have to justify my NEED for my firearms purchases? Or is it a Bill of Rights or Bill of Needs? Thanks for clarifying your position.

Great another gun owning anti.:barf:
 
I do observe that quite often, a conflict of interest clouds these members reasoning process; most often they have fed quite heavily at the .gov (gov employees or contractors). Sound about right?

woeaA03.gif
 
hammer4nc wrote:
Unlike yourself, I see no need to continually disparage their sanity through too cute phrases (...few sandwiches short). Must that be a tag line on all your posts? You're trying awfully hard

i think most people know this man is looney tunes. specifically him, not anyone else. in another thread i posted a 1994 interview with him, about 12 years before this happened. he is obviously not of sound mind or body. if you have the same logic pattern as his 1994 interview then yes you are probably extremely paranoid.

I do observe that quite often, a conflict of interest clouds these members reasoning process; most often they have fed quite heavily at the .gov (gov employees or contractors). Sound about right?

i dont have a conflict of interest. please show any proof whatsoever that i have any ties to the federal government. it's nice to resort to name calling when you don't have a logical argument to present. :neener:


IanSean wrote:
So by your line of reasoning I should have to justify my NEED for my firearms purchases? Or is it a Bill of Rights or Bill of Needs? Thanks for clarifying your position.

so you think you have the RIGHT to possess grenades even though it is illegal? so by birthright in the United States you have the right to do anything you darn well please, and if you don't like a law then you can just disregard it? that is the crux of this discussion. this guy illegally possessed machine guns and grenades and in fact pled guilty to the charges. you dont seem to think he violated any law but he certainly did. thats why he pled guilty. did you not notice that part?

please clarify your position.

Great another gun owning anti

if you read you'd see there is nothing in here about anti guns. i certainly don't see any justification to illegally possess grenades. i like how you resort to name calling when you can't formulate a logical argument either, though. how petty. :neener:
 
i dont have a conflict of interest. please show any proof whatsoever that i have any ties to the federal government. it's nice to resort to name calling when you don't have a logical argument to present.

I didn't see where he specified FEDERAL government but let's see, FFL-SOT... That's certainly a tie with the FEDERALS. It's obvious you're not arming the general populace as only the elite few can partake of your post '86 wares. Your living appears to be derived from the government trough.

Many of us believe that as United States Citizens we should be able to do pretty much as we please provided we don't infringe upon another citizen's rights.
 
Derby FALs wrote:

I didn't see where he specified FEDERAL government but let's see, FFL-SOT... That's certainly a tie with the FEDERALS. It's obvious you're not arming the general populace as only the elite few can partake of your post '86 wares. Your living appears to be derived from the government trough.

your statement is full of assumptions, and we all know about assumptions being like a human body part.

having an FFL does not mean i have any ties to the federal government, no more than your passport means you have any ties to the federal government.

assumption #1: im not arming the general populace.
-Derby when are you going to come to my shop and look at my A&D books to see exactly who i am selling to? maybe you can come here and publish your findings online to see exactly what percentage of my sales comes from government sales.

assumption #2: my living appears to be derived from the government.
-Derby you assume my FFL is my full time job and that is the only thing i do. like i said get on a plane and come here and find out for yourself. maybe you can report that maybe this isn't my full time job and it is not my livelihood.

again you fit things to suit your worthless and empty arguments. maybe if you quit pointing the finger a la Joseph McCarthy at anyone who disagrees with you then maybe you'd open your eyes and see that not everyone who disagrees with you is "anti-gun" and has "ties to the federal government."

it's quite obvious from prior posts that you have a personal beef with me. however i think you ought to get your facts straight and not make all these hollow assumptions to create some false fact.

if you knew half the things you thought you did you'd probably be a little more convincing. :rolleyes:
 
Spreadfire: reap what you sow.

When you start bring up the private ownership of Nukes as a justification for eliminating access to destructive weapons and machine guns, then that opens you up to the same sort of rhetorical attacks.

And yes, you do make money at the .govs teat, fro your website:
"We can obtain lower-cost "Law Enforcement Only" machine guns for law enforcement agency use, FET Exempt.... Feel free to contact us and let us show you how we can outfit your law enforcement agency with brand new equipment... We can do this with any law enforcement agency in the United States. Law Enforcement Agency references provided upon request."

"Law Enforcement Agencies please contact us for a free machine gun demonstration!... or for a potential future purchase"

So yes, you suck our taxes, yes you make money off .gov (probably city, state and fed).

Unless you're lying on your website, or your marketing wasn't sucessful.

But all that's neither here nor there. Just like Nukes in the hands of private citizens.
 
it's quite obvious from prior posts that you have a personal beef with me. however i think you ought to get your facts straight and not make all these hollow assumptions to create some false fact.

If you don't quit walking like a duck and quacking like a duck folks are going to believe you are indeed, a duck. Keep coming back though. :D
 
Which is more dangerous? A handgrenade, or the kind of stuff talked about on this thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=249943 ?

A person with some common household chemicals, and a little knowledge, can make things far more dangerous than a handgrenade... so what's next... outlaw cleaning products as "destructive weapons?"

A kid with a full 5 gallon gas can can do far more damage than a person can do with a handgrenade (or at least comparable damage). Ban gas? Ban gas cans?
 
Quote spreadfirearms: "think its kinda funny that some people here think the government doesn't need SWAT Teams but individual citizens need grenades and nuclear weapons.....

yes that makes perfect sense. if you are an ultra right wing cuckoo."


As someone else pointed out, it's a tool of the antis to say "you should only be able to possess what you need."

Do you need an AR-15?
Do you need a pump action shotgun?
Do you need a .50 rifle?
Do you need a 'high capacity' magazine for your pistols?

This line of reasoning is how we got the AWB of 1994... thank you very much spreadfire for buying into the anti-mentality.

Furethermore, to me it is more an issue of trust. I trust the average citizen to act responsibly and ethically for more than I trust the average police officer to do likewise. That goes double for SWAT members.

Power corrupts, and cops aren't immune.

So yeah, give a handgrenade to that paranoid guy, who retired after a life of hard work, who just wants to move to the sticks and live in peace while pursuing his hobby. I'm not worried in the slightest. The potential danger he poses is near zero, far less than giving machine guns to cops.
 
Power corrupts, and cops aren't immune.

of course not, but this thread isn't about dirty cops. it is about a guy who pled guilty to possessing an unregistered machine gun and an unregistered destructive device. he pled guilty....he admitted he was wrong.

If you don't quit walking like a duck and quacking like a duck folks are going to believe you are indeed, a duck. Keep coming back though.

Derby, again i asked you to prove something that you knew you couldn't. dave_pro2a you are just like DerbyFALs, making assumptions you can't prove. when are you coming over to look at my A&D books to see to exactly whom im selling to?
 
Just for the record, handgrenades existed at the time of the Constitution.

Private citizens could own any weapon in existence, many of the trading posts and forts were equipped with cannon and private arms the equal of those in government service. Many wealthy private individuals maintained their own private armories, not regulated by the govt. in any way, in order to defend their lands and workers against attacks by bandits and Indians. As long as those private, unregulated, arms were only used within the law there was no concept why the government would care. Except perhaps to ask for help in case of emergency.

Private citizens owned cannon armed ships which had pistols and rifles and grenades (and cutlesses and boarding pikes, ad nauseum) for defense. None of those items were provided for or regulated by the Govt. at the time. Now, if you committed a crime with your ship o' death, they'd hang ya for piracy.

See, back then at least, the idea was to criminalize the action, not the object.

As far as "what should private citizens be allowed to own now"? The middle ground standard nowadays is usually expressed as any weapons useable by an individual soldier. So machineguns, grenade launchers and light cannon, handgrenades that sort of thing.

However, we don't live in a vacuum either. You don't need laws against private fighters, or tanks, or artillery pieces as long as you enforce property laws. For example, I'd love to own an Apache, but I'm not licensed to fly one, I don't have anyplace to park it, and I don't own sufficient acreage to shoot its weapon systems without violating other peoples rights to safety and noise abatement.

If I owned a huge chunk of Interior Alaska and could feed and fuel the thing and use its weapons systems without violating others property, or game laws, or environmental laws then bully for me.

See, people turn into tunnel-visioned idiots when the concept of privately owned DD's and MG's come up, for no reason. There are plenty of Constitutional laws, Fed. state and local, on the books that will restrict ownership strictly on practical grounds. And again, if someone wants to slaughter a bunch of people a private MG is a less-efficient way then any number of effectively unstoppable bomb techniques. So there really is no logical reason to restrict ownership. Murderers will do what they want.

Oh, as far as nukes go, don't restrict the ownership per se, simply make someone demonstrate they have a place to detonate one in absolute safety before selling it to them. That's a reasonable restriction based on property rights and the libertarian "non-aggression principle".
 
Quote spreadfire arms: "it is about a guy who pled guilty to possessing an unregistered machine gun and an unregistered destructive device. he pled guilty....he admitted he was wrong."

Big whoop-de-doo. The fact he pled guilty proves nothing.

As I explained earlier on this thread, the .gov uses coercive force to elicit guilty pleas.

How many innocent people have pled guilty because they faced 15-30 years in prison if they lost a trial, but the DA or prosecuting attorney offered a plea bargain of 1 - 5 years.

With the stakes that high, it's no wonder some innocent people plead guilty.

This has happened numerous times. Most common is when a parent accused of child abuse pleads guilty to get a light sentence, when they are in fact innocent. Years later their innocence gets proven (it gets proven that the police used improper interview tactics on the childrean leading to false accusations).

So go on with your bad self and keep believing in blind obedience to the law, and the infallibility of our legal system, might as well keep believing in the Easter Bunny too while you're at it. :neener:

As to your sucking tax money from the .gov's treat, can't blame me for quoting your own website buddy.
 
So yes, you suck our taxes, yes you make money off .gov (probably city, state and fed).

dave im not sure how you think i am sucking taxes from people. please list all of the money i made off any city, state, and local government sales in 2006. you can't, can you? thus, your statement carries no weight. it is transparently without merit because again you say things that you have absolutely no proof of. but, seeing you have delusions of grandeur, you continue to believe that anything you think is fact.

Big whoop-de-doo. The fact he pled guilty proves nothing.

it proves alot. would you plead guilty if you thought you had a chance in court? the law is very clear. he clearly violated it. again you can argue until you are blue in the face like Hollis Wayne Fincher (another cuckoo) that the 2nd Amendment makes all other weapons laws illegal in court, but time and time again, people lose in court all the time when this is their only defense. in your ultra right wing extremist bubble this may be how you think but you ought to know there is a difference in your way of thinking and that of the rest of America. of course though, America is wrong. only Dave is right.

So go on with your bad self and keep believing in blind obedience to the law, and the infallibility of our legal system, might as well keep believing in the Easter Bunny too while you're at it.

you know, maybe if i was as ignorant as you about things maybe i'd go on with the same senseless babble as the same rhetoric you, DerbyFALs, and a few others seem to spout off. it's no different than McCarthyism - agree with us or we will label you an "anti-2A," etc. i think you need to wake up and realize that most of America doesn't agree with what you believe in.

i think our system isn't perfect but its a pretty damn good one. if you dont like the existing system, what are YOU doing to change it? other than typing on THR and being an internet commando, and labelling anyone who doesn't agree with you an "anti" and being in cahoots with the government, what have you done? probably not a darn thing. :confused:
 
think our system isn't perfect but its a pretty damn good one. if you dont like the existing system, what are YOU doing to change it? other than typing on THR and being an internet commando, and labelling anyone who doesn't agree with you an "anti" and being in cahoots with the government, what have you done? probably not a darn thing.

Trying to change your mind. Keep coming back. :D

As far as I see it, in for a penny, in for a pound when it comes to gun control. You either believe what the 2nd Amendment means (when it was written) or you don't. I sympathize with Fincher and Parsons on principle.
 
Trying to change your mind. Keep coming back.

As far as I see it, in for a penny, in for a pound when it comes to gun control. You either believe what the 2nd Amendment means (when it was written) or you don't. I sympathize with Fincher and Parsons on principle.

i think you'll change my mind when i change yours. which will probably be never. the difference between you and me is that you point fingers and label people when they don't agree with you, and i don't.

i believe in the 2nd Amendment but i do not take it to extremes. however, i also believe most of the current gun laws that are legislated in today's state and federal laws. i think you can believe in both, and not just one. you on the other hand choose only the law that best suits your agenda.

Fincher and Parsons are two people who blatantly violated the law and deserve whatever punishment the courts give to them. most American gun owners are law abiding citizens and don't need guys like these two to ruin it for the rest of us.
 
Well first we need to change your mind about what "regulated" meant in the 2nd Amendment. You may be the only person on this board that believes it gave the Feds power to "regulate" our arms. Keep coming back...
:D
 
You may be the only person on this board that believes it gave the Feds power to "regulate" our arms.

you're not changing my mind about anything. get that through your thick skull.

i dont think it is a prerequisite to be a THR member to actively protest the government and its regulation of arms.

you however think it is. i certainly don't think im the only one on this board. and if i am, who cares. you act as if im not entitled to my own opinion, or somehow i am wrong simply because i disagree with you.

i think you need a wake up call. disagreeing with you doesn't equate to being wrong.
 
Ok, so you want to play the semantics game let me rephrase it so even an imbecile can apprehend my meaning:

The inept marketing dribble on your website is an explicit act of begging for .gov dollars.

You may not run a succesfull company (successful is defined as your ability to actually make sales on a demographic you have target marketing toward). But you beg for their money on your website.

Is that clear enough for you? If not let me rephrase that:

Maybe you make zero dollars off the government as an FFL selling class III weapons, but you have explicitly stated a desire to suck off the teat of .gov on your website in the form of marketing.

If you don't want people to assume you make money selling class III to LEO, then update your website.

And yes, you come across as an anti to the nth degree.

And yes, a gun law that runs counter to the Constitution is illegitimate -- regardless of what SCOTUS, or the 9th Circuit, has ruled.

Unalienable rights buddy, become familiar with the concept. They rest upon no document or court ruling. The fact we are illegitimately denied the ability to excercise our rights does not mean we do not still possess them.

If your attitude of dogmatic, blind obedience to law had been adopted by the founders of this country, then we'd still be saluting the Union Jack (and we wouldn't be allowed to own any guns at all, or pocket knives).

You're an anti-in-denial, I'm just calling it how it is.
 
quote spreadfire arms: "i think you need to wake up and realize that most of America doesn't agree with what you believe in."

Well aware of it. I have only to look at CA, NY, MA, Chicago, Illinois, Washington DC, etc.

Not only does 'most' of the country not agree, but it's getting worse.

It sounds like you'll be all for the coming change: new Federal AWB, ammo bans, elimination of private transfers, no moving firearms between states as private property, et cetera.

I'm under no illusion that most people not only don't care about Civil rights, but are actively working against them. And based on your posts, you support their actions (if only tacitly).
 
Quote spread fire arms: "other than typing on THR and being an internet commando, and labelling anyone who doesn't agree with you an "anti" and being in cahoots with the government"

At least I'm not an 'internet FFL wannabe,' who has a 'suck up to leo' website in the lame attempt to snatch our tax dollars. Maybe it's be more correct to label you an LEO wannabe, your website and posts sure smack of that mentality.

And btw, I vote :neener: So I am doing something.

And no, I don't label everyone who disagrees with me an anti... just the antis who disagree with me. :D
 
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