WW2 Rifle Collection--What to include?

[USMC88-93]

 

[transformerguru]

Also SKS's started showing up at the VERY end of the war. Definitely add a 1903 or A3 to that list saw more combat than given credit for. IF you are adding sub guns to the list cannot leave out the Sten, the little gat that you loved to hate and hated to love.

 

[Old Time Hunter]

SMLE, I stand corrected, spent the last couple of hours researching and you are correct. The last major campaign that the '03 was the principal infantry weapon was on Guadalcanal.

Personally I would not include it probably because I am partial to the pre '30 '03's not the A3's. But of course that is my preference. I look at as a WWI arm.

 

[SMLE]

I too prefer the older 1903s, Had to sell the last one I had, 1920 receiver with a WWII barrel and Philippine Ordnance Depot cartuches.

 

[trbon8r]

Personally I would not include it probably because I am partial to the pre '30 '03's not the A3's. But of course that is my preference. I look at as a WWI arm.

Just for the record, the rifles the Marines were using on Guadalcanal were the older model '03s not A3s.

 

[Mp7]

..might wanna add

a http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg02-e.htm

as it was the most important gun ivan had when they went on the offensive.

 

[cluttonfred]

Nice call, Mp7, but I think he specifically said "WWII Rifle Collection" and a PPSh-41 or any SMG would almost certainly break the bank in terms of price, not to mention the licensing/legality issues in most places. A quick googasuch as my son used to call it (Google search) did turn up a semi-automatic variant that used to be sold by www.militarygunsupply.com but that site is apparently no more.

It's really too bad that there aren't more semi-auto variant of great SMGs available, but I guess the requirement in the U.S. to convert to closed-bold functioning (otherwise it's too easy to convert to full auto) drives up the price. Me, I'd love a Sten.

 

[PTK]

Semi-auto PPsh-41. That's something that you MUST have if you want a WWII collection. Unfortunately, semi-auto STENs are harder to get, as are semi-auto M3s.

EDIT: Owlnmole beat me to it!

 

[guninthewater]

As I said earlier, I'm not really interested in collecting full-auto weapons like SMGs, BARs, etc. They are simply too rare and expensive, as well as being a lot of trouble due to NFA and other legal restrictions. I'm also not interested in reproductions (such as the semi-auto versions of WW2 SMGs, BARs, etc.) for the simple reason that there is no firsthand history in these pieces.

While very interesting and desirable, rifles like the SVT-40, Gew 43, and the Johnson rifle are already becoming too rare and expensive to add to most peoples' collections. Frankly , American rifles like the Garand and Springfield are nearly in that category, fetching over $500 a pop even through the CMP. I guess, though, that we'd better get them now while they can be bought at all.

Finally,

You kinda need to add a French MAS - they were intricately involved in the war, even if they didn't do a lot of direct fighting.

I don't understand this at all. Can someone explain?

 

[barman]

Actually the Mas 36 did see some fighting. Remember that after the armistice of 1940 between France and Germany, thousands of French soldiers who refused to surrender fled either to England with General De Gaulle, or to the French colonies of North Africa (ie Algeria and Morocco), because they wanted to keep the fight.

The Foreign Legion was especially using the Mas 36 a lot, notably in the famous victory of Bir Hakeim (1942) where being besieged they nonetheless repelled several German Panzerdivisions as well as armored Italian ones.

The 15th and 21st Panzerdivision, the rest of the 90th Motorized Infantry Division, and the Italian Divisions Trieste and Ariete started the large encircling move south of Bir-Hakeim as planned

The Axis lost more than 3000 men over there.

Among the Allied strong points in the south, one was held by Free French Forces, that of Bir Hakeim. The 1st Free French brigade, commanded by General Marie Pierre Koenig. This was quite a heterogeneous unit, created from several distinct groups fleeing the military occupation of France. It had 3,700 men, split onto six battalions:

-Two Foreign Legion battalions, the 2nd and 3rd battalions of the 13th Foreign Legion Demi-Brigade, mainly Spanish republicans, already well experienced at guerilla warfare, under the command of Colonel Prince Amilakvari

-Two colonial battalions from Oubangui-Chari and French colonies in Pacific, forming the marching demi-brigade of Colonel Roux

-A battalion of Fusiliers Marins, under the command of Commander Hubert Amyot d'Inville

-The marine infantry battalion of Commander Jacques Savey.

-There were also small units, such as the 22nd North African Company of Captain Lequesne and the 17th Sappers Company of Captain Desmaisons. They had artillery support from the 1st artillery regiment of Colonel Laurent-Champrosay.

-There was also a Jewish brigade supporting the Free French troops at Bir Hakeim. When Hitler learned of this, he ordered Rommel to execute Jews who were taken prisoner. However, executing prisoners and treating prisoners badly was against Rommel's personal code, so he ignored the order and refused to carry it out.

The available equipment was also of diverse origin. There were 63 Bren Carriers, several trucks and two howitzers from the British, but most of the artillery pieces were French and came from the Levant: 54 75mm cannons (30 were used in an antitank role), 14 47 mm, 18 25 mm and 86 British-supplied Boys anti-tank rifles and 18 anti-aircraft Bofors 40 mm. Most of the infantry equipment was French, with 44 .81 or .90 mortars, 76 Hotchkiss machine guns, 96 anti-aircraft and 270 infantry FM 24/29 light machine guns. The fort had food supplies for ten days and 20,000 .75 shells.

for a more detailed account:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bir_Hakeim

On the Axis side, there were heavy casualties. 3,300 men had been killed, were wounded or gone missing, 277 had been captured, 51 tanks, 13 halftracks and a hundred other vehicles had been destroyed. The Luftwaffe had lost 7 aircraft, taken down by the French AA-guns, while 42 Stukas had been destroyed by RAF fighters. French losses were considerably lighter, with 99 killed and 19 wounded during the siege; 42 killed, 210 wounded, and 814 POWs during the evacuation, along with 40 75 mm, and 5 47 mm destroyed cannons, 8 Bofors AA-guns and about fifty destroyed vehicles. All in all, 2,619 out of 3,703 French Free men would rejoin the British lines.

This feat of arms was for many a significant proof of the valor and courage of the French soldiers, bitterly criticized since June 1940. British General Playfair wrote: "The lengthened defense of the French garrison played a major role in the re-establishment of the British troops in Egypt. The free French gravely disrupted, from the beginning, Rommel's offensive, resulting on a disturbed supply line of the Afrika Korps. The growing Axis troop concentration in the sector, needed to subjugate the fort, saved the British 8th Army from a disaster. The delays in the offensive caused by the relentless French resistance increased the British chances of success and eased the preparation of the counter-offensive. On long term, holding back Rommel allowed the British forces to escape from its meticulously planned annihilation. That's why we can say, without exaggerating, that Bir Hakeim greatly contributed to El-Alamein defensive success." On June 12th, marshal Claude Auchinleck would release a statement: "The United nations must be full of admiration and gratitude towards those French troops and their valiant General [Koenig]".[5] Winston Churchill would be more terse: "Holding back for fifteen days Rommel's offensive, the free French of Bir Hakeim had contributed to save Egypt and Suez canal's destinies."

Even Adolf Hitler would answer to the journalist Lutz Koch, coming back from Bir Hakeim: "You have heard, gentlemen, what Koch recounts. It is a new proof of the thesis I've always supported; namely, that French are still, after us, the best soldiers in Europe. France will always have the possibility, even with its current birthrate, to raise a hundred divisions. We will definitely, after this war, have to set up a coalition able to military control a country capable of such impressive military feats." As a consequence, the Führer gave the order to execute the Free French prisoners, an order that Rommel refused to carry out. Anecdotally, Rommel, impressed by the French resistance, and understanding that the prisoners suffered of thirst, ordered that French prisoners and Axis soldier would receive the same water ration. It matched with Mussolini wills, whose orders to its troops were to treat particularly well the French prisoners

 

[sarduy]

the SKS saw part of the WWII

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

Well, the Garand in mandatory, obviosly. After that, you need a K98k and a couple Mosin variants, along with an Enfield.