What is needed for the complete WWII Battle rifle collection?

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BsChoy

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I have the K98 and the M1 will be in my hands tomorrow. I know the SMLE, Nagant, and Arisaka would round out the biggies. What would you add (without the Carcano:barf: :barf: :barf: ) to make it represent all WWII goodness?
 
so many choices...

How about an M1 carbine, a Thomson... I'll get back to you with more...
 
I was going for main battle rifles only...after I get those the lesser issued weapons are next.
 
There's

Soviet Union
Mosin Nagant

THe 1903 saw some service I believe (Pacific theater?).

I suspect more people probably died with the MN in their hands than any other rifle.

That should cover it.

Anybody actually know what the French didn't use?

From Wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth.
* Arisaka Type 38
* Arisaka Type 38 (Cavalry Rifle)
* Arisaka Type 44 (Cavalry Rifle)
* Arisaka Type 97 (Sniper Rifle)
* Arisaka Type 99 + Type 99 (Sniper Rifle)
* Berthier mle 1916
* Carcano M1891
* Carcano M1891 Moschetto da Cavalleria (Cavalry Carbine)
* Carcano M1891TS Moschetto per Truppe Speciali (Special Troop Carbine)
* Carcano M1938 Carbine
* DeLisle carbine
* Enfield M1917
* Fallschirmjägergewehr 42: Select fire rifle, designed for Fallschirmjäger, produced in fairly small numbers.
* Fusil MAS 36
* Gewehr 41(W): Walther design for a self-loading service rifle. Limited service led to development of Gewehr 43.
* Gewehr 43: Standard self-loading rifle of the German army from development through the end of the war.
* Lebel mle 1886
* Gewehr 98: Standard service rifle of the German army in both wars, of sound design with excellent accuracy and range.
* Karabiner 43
* Karabiner 98k: An attempt to provide a shorter service rifle, issued through World War II, but never supplanted the G 98.
* Lee Enfield No.I Mk.III*: Standard rifle of British and Commonwealth forces at beginning of war, supplemented and replaced by No.IV
* Lee Enfield No.IV Mk.I: Appeared in larger numbers, mid-war, to replace No.I Mk.III rifle
* Lee Enfield No.V Mk.I 'Jungle Carbine': Appeared in 1944 with intention to replace other Lee Enfield rifles, for use in the jungles of the far east.
* M1 Carbine
* M1 Garand
* M1903 Springfield
* Machinenkarabiner 42(H)
* Machinenpistole 43 (MP43)
* Mosin-Nagant M1891/30
* Mosin-Nagant M1938 Carbine
* Mosin-Nagant M1944 Carbine
* Pattern 14 (P14)
* Simonov AVS-36]]

Chinese Chiang Kai Shek Rifle (widely used in the regional forces of the Chinese National Revoluntionary Army)

* Sturmgewehr 44 (MP44/Stg.44)
* Tokarev SVT-38
* Tokarev SVT-40
 
SVT-40, G43, FG42 (if you manage to find one find another for me :evil: ), K31(not actually part of WWII but from that era), Swedish Mauser, Spanish Mauser, M39.
 
Add to that list the SKS, that was used in the Battle of Berlin and a few other trial in combat tests towards the end of the war.
 
Quote:

THe 1903 saw some service I believe (Pacific theater?).

The Marines were armed with 03 Springfields when they landed in Guadacanal as the supply of M1s was insufficient to equip everyone. Many Marines "acquired" M1s from the Army after they landed. In addition to the 1903A4 Sniper version many 1903s were used in the ETO especially after landing in Normandy. They were issued to many truck drivers, supply types, and other peronnel who's main job was something other than fighting. The number of personnel in jobs such as these was a lot more than the supply of M1 Garands and M1 carbines available.
 
"...the SMLE..." Only the No. 1 Mk III is an SMLE. The No. 4 Mk I or Mk I* Lee-Enfield Rifle isn't an SMLE. You'll want one of each. Same ammo. Different rifle.
Check the headspace on any Lee-Enfield before you shoot it. Thousands have been assembled out of parts bins with zero QC. Especially if it comes from Century. Mind you, you should thoroughly check any firearm from Century.
 
1941 Johnson anyone??

Paramarines were issued these, as were the Raiders to some extent. Some swore by them others at them. I am rather fond of mine, it shoots right with my stock M1 Garands. They made a right passable light machinegun too.
Bigk6
 
actually Kalishnokov the K31 was VERY instrumental in WWII, its what kept Hitler outa Switzerland, he wanted to over run the Swiss badly but troops could never get past the Swiss markmen armed with the fast shooting extremally accurate K-31, A very good freind of mine was onea the German soldiers sent against the Swiss, all ya gotta do is listen to some of his stories to understand just how important a role that rifle played in WWII.

"Ever time we sent to Swizlerand dey chut... we die we die 500 meter we fall... de messer not chut 500 meter, when de say u go to Swiz frunt u sey why not chut me here? why make me march in de snow to be chot by de Swiz?"

The first time he saw the Swiss part of my collection he started cussin the K-31 as he removed one from the wall, he also recognized a few of the Swiss sniper rifles..... but admited he never saw one except one that had fallen into german hands and was used for training purposes untill decades after the war was over... But he was very familiar with the K-31

Everyone else has pretty much covered the rest ATBLIS has done an excellent job of listing them. The primary russian rifle was the 91/30 the M44 and M38s didn't hit the scene untill the last months of the War the 91/30 was the standard rifle that did more to win WWII than any American rifle did as we were actually Johny come latellys to WWII compared to the Russians and the British so your primary weapons would be the Russian 91/30 and don't forget the sniper version it was used extensivly by the Russians once they found there was another way to fight rather than just sending waves of bodies at the Germans, the Snipers were so feared it became un-popular to be a German officer, the average life span of a German officer anywhere near the russian front was 5 days! The British Enfield no 1 mkIII* saw extensive use followed by the NO.4MK1, The american 1903A3 saw alot of use but was replaced by the M1 late in the war, The Russian SVT40 actually saw more use by German elite units than it actually did for the Russians, WWII was dominated by the machine gun and subguns, ya really can't have a WWII collection without them as the PPSH was the #1 Soviet weapon, the British Stens and Sterlings were the primary arm, the Americans had the Thompsons and the Grease guns etc... Another very popular American weapon was the Winchester 12 gauge pump.... WWII was a trench war and long arms lost effectivness very quikly, Forcing Japan to pull out was more instrumental than the Garand for ending WWII, but by that time Hitler was already on his knees due to years of fighting the Russians on several fronts
 
Everyone should have a 1903 as a part of any battle rifle collection, WWII specific or not. It's just a darn good rifle.
 
actually Kalishnokov the K31 was VERY instrumental in WWII, its what kept Hitler outa Switzerland, he wanted to over run the Swiss badly but troops could never get past the Swiss markmen armed with the fast shooting extremally accurate K-31, A very good freind of mine was onea the German soldiers sent against the Swiss, all ya gotta do is listen to some of his stories to understand just how important a role that rifle played in WWII.

So the Germans were afraid of a few hundred thousand troops with rifles in switzerland, but weren't afraid of tens of millions of men with rifles in the Soviet Union?:scrutiny: Methinks Germany's decision not to invade Switzerland might come from the same reason that you don't rob the bank that you have your money in.
 
So the Germans were afraid of a few hundred thousand troops with rifles in switzerland, but weren't afraid of tens of millions of men with rifles in the Soviet Union? Methinks Germany's decision not to invade Switzerland might come from the same reason that you don't rob the bank that you have your money in.


Might also have had somthing to do with the enormously low oppinion Hitler had of their Eastern neighbors. Switzerland is somewhat Germanic, and they had the same thing keeping them safe as we did here in america...I believe Yamamoto said somthing to the effect that there would be a rifle behind every bush. ;)


D
 
crackedbutt, Every adult male in Swizerland is automatically in the army from age 17 untill 42! Every adult male keeps his issued weapons and stockpile of ammo at his home! Every adult male MUST perform a minimum qualification every 3 weeks untill he is discharged from service with his issued weapons.... Many Swiss are employed as mercenaries and are considered to be the best in the world. The Swiss lifstyle involves shooting sports as their primary source of recreation so yea Hitler was afraid of a few million rifles........ in the hands of men who are VERY proficient in hitting very small targets at very very long ranges... But he was not afraid enough to try, he did try to invade Switzerland many times but half heartedly since he had troops already dedicated on the Russian front that if he had pulled back to replace the units constantly wiped out at Switzerland then Russia would have easily overrun Germany, Hitler had no choice after he angered Russia but to stay with that front otherwise all those patato farmers woulda moved into Berlin much much faster... Kinda like if ya walk into a Biker bar and see a few Hells angle's at one end of the bar and decide ya are gonna go start a fight..... then ya notice this lil guy in the corner who was your high school nemises.... but now if ya turn your attention from the Angles to pick on him whats gonna happen?

Its basic, Hitler was looking at massive troop losses to invade Switzerland, Very massive as they had no gun control prohibiting civilians from being armed but in fact encouraged it, while the other lil countries he just walked through all had un-armed civilian populations and very small armies it was no great matter to invade them and force them to fight on the side of Germany, Switzerland was an entirelly different matter...........

its all basic strategy and history partner, no great mystery, the same principle kept Japan off American soil, air strikes were one thing but Japan feared actually putting troops on our soil due to the American facination with hunting and target shooting, the wide spread civilian ownership of weapons etc... Fighting an Army is one thing fighting a completally armed population is entirely something different, Why do ya think Hitlers first priority was to disarm the Jewish population? After all what did he have to fear from a few hundred thousand guns in the hands of Jews when he was willing to go against the Russians? come on friend it really doesn't require much education to understand why Hitler did not wanna face an entire armed country, armed with rifles that were 3 times more accurate than those carried by his own troops........ a country whos entire population trains to shoot at 500 meters as basic target practice!! Yea ya'll think 400 or 500 yards is a long shot, in Switzerland thats the short range for target shooters, thats why their rifles are so precision built, much higher expectations for what is acceptable quality than we have here in America
 
Read Target Switzerland : Swiss armed neutrality in World War II by Stephen Halbrook and you will come away with a renewed respect for both the Swiss and their K31 rifles.

Also, what is wrong with the Carcano? If I remember correctly, one changed US history in 1964 (Of course it was 1963, what a strange week that was!)
 
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Sistema, I do know the history of the carcano (from November 1963 by the way) but still not a gun that I want to make room for in my safe. More important would be the Jap gun(s).
 
systema1927, yea but ya gotta have the magic surplus carcano ammo as well :D that stuffs harder than hens teeth to find, I tried gettin my regular 7.35 ammo to shoot around corners............ and don't even try the 6.5 stuff it'll barelly make two turns before it falls outa the air...................
 
The american 1903A3 saw alot of use but was replaced by the M1 late in the war...

Nope, never happened. The 03-A3 saw virtually no use by front line troops. Army units had the M1 Garand from the beginning of the war, along with a smattering of 1903's for grenade launching, and the Marines used 1903's until sometime after Guadalcanal, when they too adopted the M1 Garand.

Don
 
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