WWII 1911A1 "Idiot Mark"

[ZBill]

I'm evaluating a otherwise nice 1911A1 Remington Rand with a very bad circular mark on the slide and finger cut out from improper installation of the slide stop (what I think is termed an "idiot mark"). How much does this devalue the pistol and can anything be doneto repair/restore the damage? Thanks, Bill

 

[Beethoven]

I'm evaluating a otherwise nice 1911A1 Remington Rand with a very bad circular mark on the slide and finger cut out from improper installation of the slide stop (what I think is termed an "idiot mark"). How much does this devalue the pistol and can anything be doneto repair/restore the damage? Thanks, Bill

The best place for info on this is definitely www.1911forum.com

Give them the Ser # and they'll be able to tell you where it was made, on what day, who assembled it, what he was wearing, and what he ate for his last three meals.

Based on what little I know about genuine historical 1911's, I'd say that the idiot mark doesn't detract from its value too much as the piece itself is unlikely to be in 100% pristine unfired condition.

It probably has at least slight wear and other "character" marks, right? If so, I doubt the idiot mark makes a huge difference in its value.

Next, if you attempt to repair/refinish the entire gun or even just the mark, that will most definitely reduce its value since you are altering the piece from its original condition.

Altering a WW-era 1911 should also be considered treason and a crime against humanity.

Anyhow, why are you so concerned about it? If the price is fair (and again, 1911forum.com will be able to tell you) then get it and enjoy it!

Lucky dog!!!

 

[alamo]

My Dad's Ithaca 1911A1 from WWII didn't have an idiot mark until I put a nice one there learning how to disassemble it. I knew nothing back then - I could kick myself now.

 

[TexasRifleman]

My Dad's Ithaca 1911A1 from WWII didn't have an idiot mark until I put a nice one there learning how to disassemble it. I knew nothing back then - I could kick myself now.

Ahh, it happens. No one but you knows that it didn't happen in 1943

 

[alamo]

Ahh, it happens. No one but you knows that it didn't happen in 1943

That's right, except me. Burns me up everytime I pull it out the safe.

I've seen a lot of idiot marks on WWII era 1911s at gunshows ZBill. Regular soldiers used them so they're fairly common. I'd leave it as is. That makes it authentic !!

 

[Moonclip]

Does anyone ever see a used 1911 w/o a idiot mark? I swear, I bought a used but anib Llama 1911 pattern gun once. The gun showed no signs of being fired whatsoever but it still had an idoit mark! I may have been guilty in my early gun days though when fooling with 1911's to have put an idiot mark or two.

 

[Grayrock]

I want to see a picture of an idiot mark.

 

[c_yeager]

You know that mark was placed on your grandfather's 1911 when he loaned it to Gen Patton to shoot at German planes, right?

 

[BluesBear]

here's one

 

[jacobtowne]

Well, live and learn, as they say. That's the first time I've heard the little scratch called an idiot mark. Both of my U.S. .45s have such marks, but I do not know the identity of the idiot who put them there, although his initials may be JT.

 

[R.H. Lee]

That's a normal reassembly mark on any 1911 and does not affect the function in any way. The term 'idiot mark' must have been invented by some anal retentive obsessive neat freak. Don't fall for it.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Moonclip, I think I have your Llama. Beautiful .45, barely fired, if any when I bought it: but there was the slight, half-moon scratch from the slide stop...
Anyway, when I picture it on the forums, just turn the pistol over.:

 

[ZBill]

Thanks for the replies....

I get the feeling that there are more important things to worry about than the "idiot mark." Thanks again for the input, Bill

 

[BluesBear]

The thing is there is absolutely no reason for such a mark to ever be there.

I bought several GI surplus 45s in the 70s that didn't have them.

It's not like a drag line on a revolver and we all know how some people obsess and hand-wring over those.

 

[Lonestar.45]

I have seen very few WWII era 1911's WITHOUT that mark. If they were used and fieldstripped as much as most of them were, then they'll have them, unless they were arsenal refinished and unissued after the fact.

 

[Majic]

That's a normal reassembly mark on any 1911

There is nothing normal about it unless you normally scratch the finish off your guns.

 

[alamo]

I have seen very few WWII era 1911's WITHOUT that mark. If they were used and fieldstripped as much as most of them were, then they'll have them, unless they were arsenal refinished and unissued after the fact.

I agree. They were field stripped by many, many average soldiers over their life, not gunsmiths.

 

[LHB1]

There is nothing normal about it unless you normally scratch the finish off your guns.

+1 Majic !!!
Neither of my two 1911's have the scratch mark often called an "idiot mark". I do object to the name as unnecessarily rude. Why not just call it a "scratch mark"? Just because a person doesn't know the correct way to assemble 1911 pistol does NOT make him/her an idiot. All of us had to learn at one time or other.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[longeyes]

Some of us call them scars of honor.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

That's a normal reassembly mark on any 1911 and does not affect the function in any way. The term 'idiot mark' must have been invented by some anal retentive obsessive neat freak. Don't fall for it.

Probably more like it's a normal mark from reassembly of a 1911. It's a common mistake to have happen and happens to nearly all of us at some point. I have one on my very first gun, a Colt Government Model that was purchased in 1984 and was given to me by my dad when I turned 21. I did it. Still annoys me, but not as much as the finish is now worn from 20 years of use. I haven't done it since and I've acquired several other 1911s. Nice thing about stainless is you can buff it out if you do have an incident.

 

[R.H. Lee]

If the clean freaks could see all the wear and damage they do to barrels, muzzles and crowns by obsessively cramming cleaning rods through them they'd forget all about a minor exterior scratch.

 

[longeyes]

practice makes perfect

I promise: My next 1911 will stay unbruised.

 

[Dionysusigma]

It's only fair that they have those "scars of honor" if one gave me two nice, little scars near the base of my right thumb.




I'd hate to see what some Garands look like, given that train of thought.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

+1 Majic !!!
Neither of my two 1911's have the scratch mark often called an "idiot mark". I do object to the name as unnecessarily rude. Why not just call it a "scratch mark"? Just because a person doesn't know the correct way to assemble 1911 pistol does NOT make him/her an idiot. All of us had to learn at one time or other.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

It is only partially a matter of knowing the correct way to assemble. I watched an experienced gunsmith struggle over a Colt 1911 for about 15 minutes trying to insert the slide stop.

The back side of the slide stop lever is supposed to be profiled such that, when pressed in, it pushes the plunger back into the tube. However, due to tolerances and such, if the slide stop lever isn't profiled quite right, and/or the plunger is a wee tad too long, it may be impossible for the slide stop lever to push the plunger in as it is supposed to. When (not "if") that happens, I usually can get my thumbnail in there to depress the plunger and allow the slide stop to drop in. Once in a great while the thumbnail doesn't work, and then I have to use a very small flat-blade screwdriver to depress the plunger while I insert the slide stop.

That mark shouldn't be there, but it's very understandable why it often IS there, and I think it's rather condescending to call it an "idiot mark."

 

[BluesBear]

and I think it's rather condescending to call it an "idiot mark."

Well then con-descend on THIS! (just kidding - it was too good to pass up)


Seriously, I don't think that anyone of us here invented that phrase but for some reason almost all of us, from all across the globe, know what it means.

If the condition had been first reposted here I am sure it would be forever globally known as
"The M1911 improper assembly/reassembly surface imperfection™ ".