Wyoming keeps 8 and drops 14 other states from reciprocity

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Wyoming people probably have more guns and more NRA members per capita than anywhere else in the nation. In addition, we are very outspoken and dont mind a bit calling our legistators and voicing our opinions. Due to the low population, your legislator is probably known to you by face and name, and might be your neighbor. Second Amendment issues in Wyoming almost always come out in our favor, and through our vigilance will continue to do so.
 
jnyork, I hope you're right. I was on the phone with the attorney general's office less than 10 minutes ago and although it sounded like the reciprocity number might not go down to 8, we still might not get to keep all the ones we have had.

Sooooooooooooo, for me, the calls and letters will continue until I feel that we are on solid ground again.
 
Is that Attorney General appointed or elected?

If elected and he's reading this post, he should realize that he'll be looking to go back into private practice after the next election.

If appointed, the Governor should realize that he'll be looking to go back into private practice after the next election.

I want job security for those officials who violate their oaths of office to be very, very tenuous.
 
I got the e-mail back from the AG's office. It said they would stay with the current reciprocity laws. Of course we have to keep an eye on them.
 
Ditto on the thank you! :)

Another group to sort of "hold in reserve" for contacting if these jockomos start that up again is the Cheyenne Frontier Days organization. I don't know exactly who puts it on, but here's a sample:

http://www.wyomingtourism.org/cms/d/CFD2007.php

Here is a rundown on the stars they have lined up for Cheyenne Frontier Days 2009:

http://www.oldwestnewwest.com/thing...r-days-unveils-2009-country-star-line-up.html

And I'm sure there's a Rodeo Association somewhere that might be interested in knowing about this. Maybe it would pay to alert them to this "narrow escape."

I gotta laugh at this logo, in light of the whole issue:

header_center_internal.jpg


All the above, just to keep this idea in reserve.... although it might be a good idea to warn these organizations to be prepared to respond if "Wyoming" (in the form of the AG or the Governor) tries this crap again.

Terry, 230RN

PS. I was ready to come home and fire off some letters to the AG and other contact points listed in the previous posts but took a long-overdue and well-deserved nap. When I woke up and updated myself on this issue, I discovered that "Wyoming" had backtracked on it... So I'm just waiting, ready to send off letters if the issue arises again.

Are there any efforts to persuade the Legislature to change the wording of the law to block this crap forever?

I just wish Coloradans had been this alert and energetic when Colorado changed its law so that non-resident CCWs from other States would no longer be recognized.

"Ahh, but it doesn't affect me, personally, so why the bleep should I care?" seemed to be the attitude of Colorado gunnies.

They rely on that attitude to slip it into you. So now there's no point in me getting a Utah permit to keep in reserve in case I lose my wallet... with my resident Colorado permit in it.

Frankly, I'm a little browned off at Colorado gunnies for allowing this to happen two years ago.

Congratulations, Wyoming gunnies!

TAT
 
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I got the e-mail back from the AG's office. It said they would stay with the current reciprocity laws. Of course we have to keep an eye on them.

So what states are on the current list? I would hope they add the new states (like CT) to the list.
 
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Positive re-enforcement time?

So, howzabout we don't dance on the proverbial grave of this AG and let him know it pays to keep his constituency happy (atleast until we can replace him)? Seems to me we got satisfaction on unusually short order this time around. It's time for...
Phase II:
Write and call AGAIN and thank the office for such speedy resolution. I KNOW it may not reflect your true sentiments, but it will do more to re-enforce a favorable state of affairs than screaming in their faces about how it never should have happened in the first place, won't it? IF they only put the brakes on because of uproar, we'd be screwed. No uproar stays loud long enough to be a permanent solution. DIAL! TYPE! SAY THANK YOU AND KEEP THEM ON OUR SIDE!
 
So what states are on the current list? I would hope they add the new states (like CT) to the list.

By statute, Wyoming honors concealed carry permits from other states that have laws similar to Wyoming’s. The Wyoming Attorney General’s Office is undertaking a thorough review of the concealed carry statutes of the 49 other states to determine which states have laws similar to Wyoming’s. Once that review is complete, this website will feature a list of the states from which Wyoming will honor concealed carry permits. Until then, the Division of Criminal Investigation will honor permits from those states with which Wyoming had reciprocity as of January 1, 2009.

Accordingly, Wyoming will continue to recognize concealed firearm permits from the following states. The listing also encompasses those states that have indicated they honor Wyoming permits.

Alaska Louisiana Oklahoma
Alabama Michigan Pennsylvania
Colorado Mississippi South Carolina
Florida Montana South Dakota
Georgia New Hampshire Tennessee
Idaho New Mexico Texas
Indiana Ohio Utah
Kentucky

http://attorneygeneral.state.wy.us/dci/CWP.html
 
So, the plan for this week is to get the list to grow, and I'll be writing and calling to see if that can happen. Do others have an interest and a couple of free minutes?
 
So, the plan for this week is to get the list to grow, and I'll be writing and calling to see if that can happen. Do others have an interest and a couple of free minutes?

I've sent my local, county and state reps e-mails & phone calls along with the Gov. Have only received one reply so far from a county legislature that is not even in my district & it was nothing more than 5-8 words :(

Either they are getting slammed or are just to lazy to respond & I'd like to think it's that they are getting slammed about this issue and can't keep up....
 
I spent about a half hour in Dept. of Criminal Investigation Friday discussing this issue. It is NOT a done deal yet. You must understand the position the Atty Gen. is coming from. In Wyoming, a drug conviction persuant to the Controlled Substance Act, will disqualify you from getting a CCW Permit. In some of the States we currently have reciprocity with, a misdemeanor drug conviction DOES NOT disqualify you from getting a CCW. So, if you are a resident of one of these States, you could legally carry in Wyoming, when OUR OWN residents could not. The Atty. Gen has a duty and responsibility to periodically review the agreements and/or compacts we have with other States relating to CCW reciprocity. I have mixed emotions about the whole thing, but call the Governor's office and the AG to express your thoughts.
 
Did he forget how to compromise

I understand the AG's concerns completely. But he has to understand that the easiest, and most arbitrary decision is not always the best one. Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing immediately knocking most states of the reciprocity list. Regardless:
Had he considered asking those states to amend their requirements to come in line with Wyoming's?
Had he considered that neighboring states' CCW criteria may be "close enough" already? After all, some out-of-state drivers may have committed misdemeanors that would have precluded them from obtaining Wyoming licenses, but Wyoming still honors those licenses. Reciprocity does not have to mean identical operating procedures...if it did they might as well just merge the states now (Midwestota?).
Had he considered proposing that Wyoming alter it's own CCW criteria? There is a strong argument to be made that one mistake involving illicit substances shouldn't permanently strip one of one's right to defend oneself, family, and property.
This is starting to sound very much like a "shoot first ask questions later" frame of mind the AG is operating with. I doubt he thought it through or considered the VAST and far reaching inconvenience he would be causing. All the same, you fine folks sound like you've still got the right idea. FOLLOW UP. Whether you think he should just let it slide, alter Wyoming law, or request neighboring states alter theirs. Remember our goal is the MAINTAIN RECIPROCITY regardless of how you advocate doing it.
 
sounds to me like the wyoming a.g. is a real p.i.t.a. . i am glad i don't live there. as for the reciprocity, i think ted nugent has it right. "the second amendment IS my ccw permit". unfortunatly, the overwhelming majority of us do not have the cubic dollars to hire lawyers to get us out of things like this. it is unlikely that i would be going to wyoming anytime soon anyway, but it is to bad another politician shoves his personal veiws down the rest of our necks. everybody thinks they need to interpet the constitution, instead of reading it at face value.
 
I just received a memo from Christopher Crofts in response to a number of emails that I sent.

MEMORANDUM​

TO: All the persons who have communicated recently with the Governor’s office concerning the issue of reciprocity of Wyoming’s Concealed Weapons Permits with respect to other states

FROM: C.A. “Kip” Crofts, Counsel to Governor Freudenthal

Introduction:

Thank you all for your interest and input on this important subject. Due to the large numbers of comments/inquiries we received, it is not possible to give each of you an individual response. So I will try to generally describe and explain the situation here, and if you have further questions or comments you may direct them to me at the email address to which this will be attached.

First I would like to say that our Governor, Attorney General, Legislature, and most citizens of Wyoming are very supportive generally of all 2nd Amendment rights. But all of us in the Executive Branch of government are obliged to follow the law passed by our Legislature, regardless of our personal preferences. Here is a description of what happened, what the problem was, and remains, with an explanation of our plan going forward with this issue:

Background of the Issue:

Current Wyoming Statues (§ 6-8-104) provides that persons from other states are immune from our law generally criminalizing the concealed carry of weapons if “the person holds a valid permit authorizing him to carry a concealed firearm authorized and issued by a governmental agency or entity in another state that recognizes Wyoming permits, is a valid statewide permit, and the state has laws similar to the provisions of this section, as determined by the attorney general, including a proper background check of the permit holder.”

The difficulty that has arisen recently has to do with scope and meaning of the phrase “laws similar to” quoted above, and more specifically with how the various states handle the issue of prior misdemeanor convictions for controlled substance offenses or other controlled substance involvement.

Wyoming Statutes, in a further provision of the same section quoted above, provides that a Wyoming permit may only be given to someone “who has not been committed to a state or federal facility for the abuse of a controlled substance or convicted of a violation of the Wyoming Controlled Substances Act of 1971 [citing sections of entire act] or similar laws of any other state or the United States relating to controlled substances.” (Elsewhere in the law are other references to disqualification based on the person being an “unlawful user” of or having participated in “incidents involving” controlled substances.)

Wyoming’s Controlled Substances Act is a comprehensive act, and it includes misdemeanor provisions concerning the possession of small amounts and/or the use of controlled substances. (It contains felony provisions too, of course, but they are not relevant to this discussion because a felony conviction will generally bar any possession of a firearm, concealed or not.)

Several years ago Wyoming was reviewing the application of another state for reciprocity with Wyoming, and it was noticed that the state’s laws governing issuance of its concealment permits did not bar applicants in that state based on prior misdemeanor drug convictions. At that time it was determined not to grant reciprocity to that state because its laws were not deemed to be “similar” to Wyoming’s and for the seemingly obvious reason that it seemed inconsistent and unfair to recognize a permit holder (who might have a drug conviction) from another State, when the same person could not qualify for a permit in Wyoming. At that time it was determined to survey the laws of the other 49 states to see if similar inconsistencies existed.

That survey was completed on January 23, 2009. The results showed that eight other states have laws similar to Wyoming’s, barring applicants with prior misdemeanor drug convictions. Twelve states bar applicants for some period of time, ranging from three to ten years after the conviction. Eight states disqualify for controlled substance “use” under varying circumstances. Four states disqualify applicants who are “addicted” to controlled substances, and eighteen do not appear to have any disqualifier for misdemeanor drug convictions, or usage or addiction.

Based on the results of this survey, and the determination that had been made in 2007 when the survey was commenced, the Division of Criminal Investigation announced the change in Wyoming’s reciprocity policy that led to your concerns.

Current Status:

Recognizing that this change potentially had far-reaching consequences, possibly causing other states to withdraw recognition of Wyoming’s permits, and because the survey and comparison for “similarity” had been too narrow in scope by only considering the controlled substance issue, the Governor and Attorney General decided to rescind that change and leave things in the “status quo” that has existed for several years while we study this further.

The Attorney General plans to survey the other states again, and look not just at the controlled substance issue, but at the entire list of requirements for the issuance of a permit. He will then try to develop some understanding of what our Legislature might have intended by the word “similar” when they passed our statute several years ago, and do a more comprehensive comparison of the laws for “similarity” – looking further than the single issue of drugs. Obviously there will be differences from one state to the next, and that term (similar) will require some degree of judgment to be exercised by the Attorney General under the current statute. His survey may show that some states have more stringent requirements than Wyoming’s in some area other than drugs, and through some balancing or weighting of all of the criteria, he may decide that they are “similar” enough to satisfy the Legislature’s intent. He plans to complete that new survey, and arrive at some conclusion on that issue, prior to the time our Legislature meets next year. If it is his “determination” that some narrowing of our grants of reciprocity must occur under the current law, he will make that determination prior to the legislative session, so that they may change our statute if they wish.

At this time I cannot predict the outcome of either the Attorney General’s review, or what, if anything, our Legislature might do with this issue.
 
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The response I received

MEMORANDUM
TO: All the persons who have communicated recently with the Governor’s office concerning the issue of reciprocity of Wyoming’s Concealed Weapons Permits with respect to other states
FROM: C.A. “Kip” Crofts, Counsel to Governor Freudenthal
Introduction:
Thank you all for your interest and input on this important subject. Due to the large numbers of comments/inquiries we received, it is not possible to give each of you an individual response. So I will try to generally describe and explain the situation here, and if you have further questions or comments you may direct them to me at the email address to which this will be attached.
First I would like to say that our Governor, Attorney General, Legislature, and most citizens of Wyoming are very supportive generally of all 2nd Amendment rights. But all of us in the Executive Branch of government are obliged to follow the law passed by our Legislature, regardless of our personal preferences. Here is a description of what happened, what the problem was, and remains, with an explanation of our plan going forward with this issue:
Background of the Issue:
Current Wyoming Statues (§ 6-8-104) provides that persons from other states are immune from our law generally criminalizing the concealed carry of weapons if “the person holds a valid permit authorizing him to carry a concealed firearm authorized and issued by a governmental agency or entity in another state that recognizes Wyoming permits, is a valid statewide permit, and the state has laws similar to the provisions of this section, as determined by the attorney general, including a proper background check of the permit holder.”
The difficulty that has arisen recently has to do with scope and meaning of the phrase “laws similar to” quoted above, and more specifically with how the various states handle the issue of prior misdemeanor convictions for controlled substance offenses or other controlled substance involvement.
Wyoming Statutes, in a further provision of the same section quoted above, provides that a Wyoming permit may only be given to someone “who has not been committed to a state or federal facility for the abuse of a controlled substance or convicted of a violation of the Wyoming Controlled Substances Act of 1971 [citing sections of entire act] or similar laws of any other state or the United States relating to controlled substances.” (Elsewhere in the law are other references to disqualification based on the person being an “unlawful user” of or having participated in “incidents involving” controlled substances.)
Wyoming’s Controlled Substances Act is a comprehensive act, and it includes misdemeanor provisions concerning the possession of small amounts and/or the use of controlled substances. (It contains felony provisions too, of course, but they are not relevant to this discussion because a felony conviction will generally bar any possession of a firearm, concealed or not.)
Several years ago Wyoming was reviewing the application of another state for reciprocity with Wyoming, and it was noticed that the state’s laws governing issuance of its concealment permits did not bar applicants in that state based on prior misdemeanor drug convictions. At that time it was determined not to grant reciprocity to that state because its laws were not deemed to be “similar” to Wyoming’s and for the seemingly obvious reason that it seemed inconsistent and unfair to recognize a permit holder (who might have a drug conviction) from another State, when the same person could not qualify for a permit in Wyoming. At that time it was determined to survey the laws of the other 49 states to see if similar inconsistencies existed.
That survey was completed on January 23, 2009. The results showed that eight other states have laws similar to Wyoming’s, barring applicants with prior misdemeanor drug convictions. Twelve states bar applicants for some period of time, ranging from three to ten years after the conviction. Eight states disqualify for controlled substance “use” under varying circumstances. Four states disqualify applicants who are “addicted” to controlled substances, and eighteen do not appear to have any disqualifier for misdemeanor drug convictions, or usage or addiction.
Based on the results of this survey, and the determination that had been made in 2007 when the survey was commenced, the Division of Criminal Investigation announced the change in Wyoming’s reciprocity policy that led to your concerns.
Current Status:
Recognizing that this change potentially had far-reaching consequences, possibly causing other states to withdraw recognition of Wyoming’s permits, and because the survey and comparison for “similarity” had been too narrow in scope by only considering the controlled substance issue, the Governor and Attorney General decided to rescind that change and leave things in the “status quo” that has existed for several years while we study this further.
The Attorney General plans to survey the other states again, and look not just at the controlled substance issue, but at the entire list of requirements for the issuance of a permit. He will then try to develop some understanding of what our Legislature might have intended by the word “similar” when they passed our statute several years ago, and do a more comprehensive comparison of the laws for “similarity” – looking further than the single issue of drugs. Obviously there will be differences from one state to the next, and that term (similar) will require some degree of judgment to be exercised by the Attorney General under the current statute. His survey may show that some states have more stringent requirements than Wyoming’s in some area other than drugs, and through some balancing or weighting of all of the criteria, he may decide that they are “similar” enough to satisfy the Legislature’s intent. He plans to complete that new survey, and arrive at some conclusion on that issue, prior to the time our Legislature meets next year. If it is his “determination” that some narrowing of our grants of reciprocity must occur under the current law, he will make that determination prior to the legislative session, so that they may change our statute if they wish.
At this time I cannot predict the outcome of either the Attorney General’s review, or what, if anything, our Legislature might do with this issue.
 
This is an interesting exchange, and kudos to the activists who contributed to the reciprocity rollback. The exclusion of everyone with a drug misdemeanor for life seems a bit extreme, but as a general rule federalism is a good thing. I would rather have the states work out their differences regarding reciprocity than allow a national statute to make that determination, because once it's in the purview of the national legislature it would be easier to erode.

One compromise that might be pursued in Wyoming would be something like a five-year background check for substance misdemeanors, but I don't know how that would impact reciprocity. VA only excludes felonies, I think, and nutcases. The latter would probably exclude most of the residents of Los Angeles and New York City, except for a few friends of mine.

Again, national law would not be a good thing. Moreover, if compromises limiting CCW in shall issue states were required to win over most may issue states to national reciprocity, the shall issue states would end up with net restrictions their residents would otherwise have rejected. Of course, the up side would be that New Jersey residents would be able to carry for the first time since the 19th century. Tough call, I guess.
 
hmmmm...

I was last in Wyoming four years ago, and thought it was a beautiful state. Clear skies, wide open spaces and probably more wildlife than I've ever encountered elsewhere.

But now that they've written off Texas, I regrettably write off Wyoming.
 
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