yet another 1911 problem

[FullEffect1911]

you all didn't think i could go over a week without some kind of problem did you? Ah well i'm nearing completion but i ran into a problem on the very last thing that needs to be done. Once again springfield mil spec 1911 in stainless.

Everything is in and good to go except the extractor. When i test feed the gun; push on the back of the slide lightly without the recoil spring, like tuner suggests, the gun is smooth as butter. As soon as the extractor goes in, i get a lateral bind something fierce (i think lateral bind is the correct term). The cartrides at the rear will get pushed to the side by the extractor and the round will go caddy corner going into the chamer, catching everthing along the way (even puts scrapes on the case). This doesn't allow to go into battery at all easily.

Feeds great no extractor, terrible with extractor. Okay must be the tension, but i turned the OEM part for practice to the point that it had near no tension on the case and it still did it.

What it appears like is that the extractors are too long (springfield OEM part and a C&S aftermarket). The extractor claw seems to dig into the beveled part of the case extractor grove when the round is against the breechface. I tuned up the C&S part pretty good as per Tuner's instructions and everything measures out, but if i bevel the extractor more i won't have a hook left, or i'll have one that will break due to lack of material.

Sigh :banghead: , i was so close to completion. Any suggestions would be GREATLY apprecaited. I thinking i just need a shorter extractor. (any suggestions?)

PS i noticed i get less lateral bind with the oem part (it is slightly shorter then the C&S)

As always thanks in advance.
FE1911

 

[1911Tuner]

Lateral Bind

Howdy FE,

Take the extractor back out and flip the slide upside down. Just under the breechface, you'll notice two short, parallel rails. Carefully measure the distance between those rails. You want .484 to .488 inch. Several Springfields of recent production are too narrow there, and it causes problems
with most in-spec ammo.(rim diameter.)

Standin' by...

 

[FullEffect1911]

IIRC i checked the breechface guiderails and they came in at .490. I'll check them again when i get home to be sure.

The thing is when the round is under the extractor and pressed back against the breechface, you can see the front of the hook rubbing against the case bevel. This seems to me like when it fires it will bang against that and when it feeds it will create a force and push the cartridge to the left.

I haven't come across people having the problem before, so i hope i am not just out of my mind on this one. And i really hope my slide isn't out of spec.

I'll check the rails again, but i am pretty sure they are okay. Could it be anything else by chance?

Standin by.
FE1911

 

[1911Tuner]

By Chance?

IIRC i checked the breechface guiderails and they came in at .490. I'll check them again when i get home to be sure.

The thing is when the round is under the extractor and pressed back against the breechface, you can see the front of the hook rubbing against the case bevel. This seems to me like when it fires it will bang against that and when it feeds it will create a force and push the cartridge to the left.

I haven't come across people having the problem before, so i hope i am not just out of my mind on this one. And i really hope my slide isn't out of spec.

I'll check the rails again, but i am pretty sure they are okay. Could it be anything else by chance?

Standin by.
FE1911

If it's .490, you're good to go. The nose of the extractor hitting the forward angle of the case seems to be a pretty common thing with recent Springers, and is very likely the cause of your problem.
Jammer had the same problem, and the Micro that I just (barely) got squared away did too. I've heard of a few more.

Not a major issue, since things can be adjusted...but it's a PITA that shouldn't be happening. It can break your extractor double-quick if allowed to go on. To correct it, figure out which extractor provides the least amount of contact, and file a little clearance at the front. Be careful not to cut it at such an angle so as to shorten the hook...unless the hook is also too deep...
and be careful to keep it at a MINIMUM of .032...and that's absolute minimum.

Standin' by...

 

[FullEffect1911]

Thanks tuner, i'll see what i can do to remedy the problem. thanks for the info.

 

[Old Fuff]

Foolish People...!!

You actually expect the parts to be within spec???

 

[FullEffect1911]

I'm sorry fuff

I would boycott these unworthy 1911's and parts, its just.... just... the 1911 addicition has a firm hold on me and i'm a tinkerer. Woah is me.

This lateral bind is really starting to irk me :banghead: once i get the bind resolved it won't eject right... clocking maybe *grumble grumble* i'll get it eventually.

Think i FUBAR'ed my C&S stractor, brown hardcore here i come!

 

[Old Fuff]

... its just.... just... the 1911 addicition has a firm hold on me and i'm a tinkerer. Woah is me.

Boy .... You don't know what a 60-year addiction is like ....

If you had the good fortune to get a REAL 1911 pistol the way they were built 45 or 50 years ago you wouldn't have these problems. I suspect that if you take that extractor and measure it end to end, and/or from the firing pin stop slot to the front, you will quickly get a clue as to what's causing the problem. No pistol will work right when the parts are mis-dimensioned. Now you would think that the company that made your pistol would have something called a Quality Control Department and the folks that worked therein would measure some random samples whenever a new shipment of parts arrived. That way their customers wouldn't have to "tinker" to make the thing work. But quality is an old fashioned concept that doesn’t carry much weight anymore.

So anyway ... Tinker away ...

 

[HD]

this kind of happy horsepoop is why i bought the sig ....

and why my 1911 is confined to paperpunching duties ...
where is JMB now that we really need him ?

 

[FullEffect1911]

yeah it seems all profit profit profit with companys anymore, leave it to the customer to get it to work right cause they'll still buy. Where is the sense of corperate responsibility? Ahh well, roll with the punches as they say, for they will surly be thrown.

 

[Old Fuff]

If you must "tinker," and it's clear that you do, log onto:

www.e-gunparts.com

They are Numrich, the Gunparts Corporation, and they have investment cast extractors that are next to junk, but perfect to experiment and learn on because they only cost $4.85 each.

Item No. 268430 is what you want.

When you've learned the what's and how's buy a quality extractor and use the Numrich one for a pattern.

 

[FullEffect1911]

I think i solved my extractor woes but have another problem :banghead: (kinda making me wonder if i just misread the extractor problem, although the C&S was still too long and out of spec)

Fixable i hope. When the slide drops from slide lock or just racking the slide to "imitate" firing the round will pick up, get under the extractor like it should, slide up to its final run to full lockup (ie not stem bind) and then BOOM stop dead of full lock up by maybe half an inch... Weird.

With the slide off the gun and the barrel, extractor, and barrel bushing in it. If i put a round in the barrel like it would assembled, and push the barrel into full lock up. The barrel is much harder then it should be to get out of lock up. Much like the round is sticking in there somehow. however without the extractor there isn't a problem (although i forgot to try the slide off without the extractor)

Possibly breechface rails out of spec? lateral bind? Wierd.

If anyone knows what this problem could be please let me know. I somehow think it probably was touched on at some point in the past.

Thanks again.

PS funny how i fitted every part in my 1911 at the very last thing got me. I I hate Murphy

 

[trbon8r]

and why my 1911 is confined to paperpunching duties ...
where is JMB now that we really need him ?

Where is the Sig guru to help out my friend and his new 226 that likes to eject the mag out of the pistol every 3rd or 4th round?

No mechanical device is perfect, and yes that includes Glocks and Sigs. I owned a Glock 21 that was no great shakes either. I'll stick to Les Baer thanks.

FullEffect1911,

I want to make sure I'm reading this right. Is the round going into the chamber and the gun not going fully into battery? If so maybe the chamber is a bit undersized or in need of polishing?

 

[FullEffect1911]

I want to make sure I'm reading this right. Is the round going into the chamber and the gun not going fully into battery? If so maybe the chamber is a bit undersized or in need of polishing?

I was thinking this too, but it is just strange that everything goes super smooth without the extractor. I will however look into that possiblity more of course. I can't rule out any possiblity. I'm thinking it's either an undersized chamber like you suggest or a out of spec left side breechface guide rail (overall dimension is .490 between them, but i think the left rail might be too far to the right.)

It's also worth noting that when the extractor tension is WAY light it feeds smoothly, however it then jams when ejecting loaded rounds.