You can thank Bill Clinton for your 1911

[Miami_JBT]

Yup.... you heard right. Now before you all stone me to death allow me to explain.

As a child of the 1980s I grew up in the age of the Wonder Nine. Beretta, GLOCK, Sig Sauer, HK, and Smith & Wesson. Everyone was dropping the wheel gun and adopting a 9x19mm of some sort or another. Hell, even Uncle Sam saw the writing on the wall and ditched the rattle trap 1911 for the Beretta.

Films like Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, RoboCop, The Rookie, Predator, Commando, Terminator, etc.... all of them had a ton of Wonder Nine action. They fueled the fire in sales long with every article in every gun rag about the next agency that just adopted a Wonder Nine. The LAPD, NYPD, FBI, etc... police sales do drive civilian market sales.

What was happening to the 1911 at the time? Well, it was being made by Colt and a couple of other folks. There was a small problem. The majority of them sucked! Standard procedure back then was you bought a 1911 and then sent it off to your gunsmith so it could work right. They were rattle traps that didn't feed anything but ball ammo and that's if you're lucky. They were low capacity, large, heavy, and a money pit. Why spend your hard earned money on an outdated piece of crap when you can buy a new hi tech GLOCK or an Italian Stallion Beretta 92? What about the ultra well crafted Sig P226?

The 1911 was starting to fade away..... than President William Jefferson Clinton came into the picture and signed into law the Assault Weapon Ban. A hideous piece of legislation that banned magazines over 10 rounds..... Gasp! That should reduce crime! Well, it didn't and we all know that. But we're not discussing the AWB itself.... more on the effect on the popularity of the 1911.

Now post 1994 you can still buy a GLOCK or a Beretta but why would you? Unless you had a source of pre-ban magazines you'd feel screwed and cheated. Why would you carry a fullsize pistol that can hold 15 to 17 rounds of 9x19mm when by law you were limited to 10 rounds max. All of a sudden the 1911 becomes in vogue again. Here you have a fullsize pistol that is also now all of a sudden "slim" and carries a cartridge that has more "knock down" power. 8 rounds of .45 will do what 15 rounds of 9mm can do! Everyone and their mother started cranking out 1911s.

You started having companies that made 1911s update the design. Make them work better, feed better, feel better. The 1911 I have today is 110 times better than one produced in the 1980s. I have a 2011 production Colt Combat Commander and a 1986 Colt Series 80. The Series 80 still can't feed JHP even after sending it off to a great gunsmith in the Miami area. But the Commander feeds everything and anything right out of the box. No tweaking needing.

The AWB helped fuel the 1911 market because folks thought "if I can't carry or own a fullsize 9mm pistol with proper magazines I might as well own something that is more powerful even though it has less capacity". Caliber effectiveness isn't being discussed here either. Just marketing and sales. Gun magazines were pushing 1911s and the .45 ACP for the simple reason that the AWB gutted the Wonder Nine market. what sold the Wonder Nines was capacity. Restrict it and the market drops like a rock.

The .40 S&W also gained market share due to the AWB. A Beretta 92FS, Sig Sauer P226, and S&W 5906 all held 15rd of ammunition. But their .40 caliber cousins held 11rds. Buyers wouldn't feel as cheated with the loss of one round than with the loss of five. Also agency sales drove that market too. Because in the mid 90s a ton of agencies swapped their Wonder Nines for .40 cals. It also drove the CCW market too. Before the AWB most companies didn't produce compact pistols. During the AWB a ton of companies did due to the 10rd limit. If you had to work with 10rd max, why build it a huge pistol around it. Compact and subcompact power house pistols started to show up. Those 9mm and .40 and .45 pocket pistols spelled the death of the Beretta 84 or browning copy...the .380 high capacity pistol was killed. GLOCK came out with the subcompacts because of that very reason. But that is also another discussion.

In the end... the 1911 market is what it is today because of Bill Clinton and the AWB. The AR-15 also is where it is today because of that. But that was more of the "If I can't have it I want it" mindset.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Then he went and sent several thousand GI 1911s to the grinder rather than sell them through the CMP.

The AWB may have forced the market to improve upon the 1911, but Bill Clinton will never get my thanks.

 

[courtgreene]

good point... I never would have thought about that.
Democrats are really great for firearm marketing. (I'm not a republican, just pointing out a fact)

 

[ATLDave]

I agree.

Here's another counter-intuitive pitch: We almost certainly would have gotten additional federal gun control if Mitt Romney were president at/after Sandy Hook. He had a history of supporting gun control in MA, and would not likely have spent political capital resisting the political winds pushing for gun control last year. With the GOP president supporting gun control, many more members of the Senate would have had "cover" for a pro-gun control vote. (Think about the effects that Reagan's support of some gun control had when he was president.)

 

[Sol]

I agree.

Here's another counter-intuitive pitch: We almost certainly would have gotten additional federal gun control if Mitt Romney were president at/after Sandy Hook. He had a history of supporting gun control in MA, and would not likely have spent political capital resisting the political winds pushing for gun control last year. With the GOP president supporting gun control, many more members of the Senate would have had "cover" for a pro-gun control vote. (Think about the effects that Reagan's support of some gun control had when he was president.)

That's not counter-intuitive, that's would have been factual.

Anyways, no praise to Clinton on my behalf.

Gore was the real innovator, inventing the internet and warning us about global warming....

Without Gore we would have still been using carrier pigeons and signal flashers.

I jest though.

 

[MistWolf]

While the AWB had a big impact on the handgun market, there are other, more important factors to consider. The majority of the "Wonder Nines" had the DA/SA trigger which was difficult for many shooters to master, the FBI set terminal performance standards which ammo makers spent a pile of R&D money on the 9mm to get it to meet consistently and the surplus 1911 market was very lively with prices still in reach of the average shooter.

The AWB did not have as large an impact of the popularity of the 40 S&W as you think- I went to buy a Sig 229 in 40 S&W the day the 10 round ban went into affect in California. Every pistol in 40 &W had flown off the shelf in all the LGSs but the 9mm lay languishing.

At the time the AWB had gone into affect, many of the custom features shooters were paying extra for had become regular items on factory offerings and being ramped to feed the "flying ashtrays" that were all the rage, was normal. The real problem with 1911s was the rattle- or lack thereof. It's a popular misconception that rattle in 1911 is bad. No so. It's designed to rattle so the slide will move freely and have space for lube and to keep running in harsh conditions. The slide rattle, as long as it's not excessive (out of tolerance) doesn't hurt accuracy. What's critical to accuracy is barrel to slide fit.

Slide rattle isn't found only with 1911s. The Wonder Nines have it too.

The problem with the military 1911s wasn't the fact the design was out-dated, it was the fact the military hadn't bought any replacements since WWII. The pistols had been carried a lot, shot a lot and still used the old worn out slides & frames. Strangely enough, though old and worn, the pistols still ran reliably.

If all the 1911s of the day sucked and were poorly made, neither of my Colts got the memo, or any of the Colts bought by several friends & family members. The day I picked up mine, I stopped at the local indoor range to test it out and ended up firing 500 rounds that afternoon. In all the thousands of rounds since, it's always been reliable no matter what ammo I used in it. That pistol would even feed an empty case.

Another plus for the 1911 was the patronage of Jeff Cooper. He did more to ensure the continued popularity and advance the evolution of the 1911 and the art of modern pistol craft than any other individual.

While the AWB did have an affect but it's role in the continued popularity of the 1911 is minor at best. The 1911 continues to give solid, reliable service and it's status as a classic handgun and an American icon is hard won and well deserved

 

[BLU]

Mist_Wolf... you are Spot-On buddy. The barrel link makes a noise.... big-deal. One shot of the 1911, ball-ammo or Superman splitting critical-defense titanium tipped hollow-points... it doesn't matter. The Bad Guy's going down. I've witnessed it. Plenty of stories of the Wonder-Nines cruising through killing the BG just a tad too late, (as the FBI figured out!). I doubt the AWB caused anyone familiar with the 1911 to dump it for the other firearms. (I personally jibed those that thought a 9 could compete with the power of the .45.) Now, I get to say.... "told ya!).

 

[Jim NE]

And don't forget...his vice-president, Al Gore, invented the internet! So we should be doubly thankful for that administration!

 

[barnbwt]

The way his acolytes prattle on to this very day (and beyond), I'm inclined to agree that Cooper guy had the most to do with it. As I understand it, he was one of, if not the foremost gun writer out there, and relentlessly pimped 1911's as the solution to all troubles for a good 3 or 4 decades (longer?). I understand he took a break to promote 10mm for a time

As Wonder Nines moved towards polymer (being cutting edge and whatall), there was obviously less and less room for them to show off workmanship and act as status symbols. The most tricked-out Glock there is won't hold a candle to a GI 1911 in decent condition, as far as 'class' and impressiveness as far as appearance. I think polymer guns are the real driving force for 1911s, and at least a good portion of all the 'nice trigger,' 'thin profile,' and 'grip angle' stuff is just justification for a timeless, quality design, with which you can impress your friends and feel proud to own. A Glock is only one of those things (a Beretta 2-3, I guess )

TCB

 

[MagnunJoe]

Interesting. And Be carefull what u wish for. If the White House and senate had their way, all we would be able to own would be revolvers and 1911s with standard 7 round mags.

 

[meanmrmustard]

That's not counter-intuitive, that's would have been factual.

Anyways, no praise to Clinton on my behalf.

Gore was the real innovator, inventing the internet and warning us about global warming....

Without Gore we would have still been using carrier pigeons and signal flashers.

I jest though.

Don't forget Manbearpig.

 

[tarosean]

Interesting perspective for sure.

If that were a relevant argument than they surely would have died off at the sunset a decade ago.

Instead you have more manufactures of 1911's today than have ever existed in its history.

I'm inclined to agree that Cooper guy had the most to do with it.

Yeah the OP is ignoring the fact that IDPA got its start in that era and Coopers baby - IPSC/USPSA really took off too...

 

[Fishbed77]

Umm... No.

I have nothing to thank Bill Clinton for. He was my employee, and I believe he was not very good at his job (protecting the freedoms and security of the American people).

Besides, he didn't pass the AWB. Congress did. He merely signed it into law.

 

[Big Shrek]

The AWB is responsible for me getting interested in Proper Capacity Mags...
at the time, I had a Taurus 66 .357 and was quite happy...then the AWB passed,
suddenly, I wanted something Pre-Ban...so I got a Star 30P 15+1 wonder-nine, and was quite happy...
after getting medically retired from the military, needed a nice easy job, so started working as a cabbie...
that's when I found out that gun laws don't mean squat

They can pass ANY anti-gun law, it still won't make a dent in what criminals will do.
Everything you can do with a gun that is illegal, is already illegal.
All anti-gun/capacity laws do is disarm the civilian populace...
which is what TYRANTS want to do...

Occasionally, a Rep gets fooled into thinking its for safety purposes...
nothing could be further from the truth...
Take a look at Britain...totally anti-gun, but gun violence is still occurring...
and guess what, bladed weapons are REALLY in use now...
stabbings are up higher than gun violence ever was!!
Why is that?? Because its QUIETER!!
You can stab & rob your way down a subway & get off at the next stop before anyone is the wiser!!
Gee...and NOBODY to stop them, because some dangfool politicians outlawed guns from the citizens!!

 

[Tirod]

Pretty good synopsis.

I would add that once a military firearm is made "obsolete," there is a peculiar notion among shooters to get one. Whether it's because they anticipate the old ones selling off cheap, or because "they won't make them any more," I don't know, but popularity starts to surge. You could say the same thing about the horse after cars became the norm, more now on ranches than in 1901.

So, the public was poised to enjoy having an older retro gun in light of adopting the new wonder nine for the military, and then add to that all the police adopting the Glock. Revolvers started being collected, too.

NOW insert Uncle Bill grinding up all the service 1911's on a 24/7 schedule to get his anti gun policy some traction. With NO issue 1911's coming out of the CMP - and even getting it shut down - along with AWB, there was a reaction. We would buy them anyway - and the manufacturers (here's where they don't look so good -) knew they didn't have to compete with the sale of 100,000's of 1911's at fire sale pricing. Hmmmm?

Production ramped up . . . and it's still strong.

Follow the money.

Sometimes the makers stand idly by to their advantage. Profits can and do come before "rights" when it boils down to keeping the doors open. As the makers have shown by always coming up with compliant designs. Only lately have they been backpedaling from inventing or changing specific models for, say, the California market. And that is largely because of profit. Sales to one state won't cover the costs, and the backlash from the public if they were seen to cozy up too much would be a profit killer.

They didn't seem to do or speak out at all about destroying the 1911's, and those rare models with limited numbers were destroyed, too. Sad to consider the Union Switch and Signal 1911 my first Reserve unit had in the circular rack is now likely gone, along with a nearly 50,000 others.

That's why some of us talk about "Presidential legacy."

 

[GAF]

And if not for Ronald Reagan the AWB would not have passed.

 

[tomrkba]

Companies responded to the ten round limitation by...wait for it...building guns built around the ten round limitation!

Then the Brady Bunch decided to complain about "small, concealable death ray guns" built around the ten round magazines they pushed for.

But, without the ban, the Glock 26 might not have been made!

 

[Officers'Wife]

No, I can thank my uncle for my Commander which he bought sometime in the 70's. The only thing I can thank Clinton for is nearly every guy I dated telling me fellatio isn't really sex. Which in retrospect is part of the reason my uncle gave me his Commander.

 

[RX-79G]

Do we have Bush Sr. to thank for all the wonderful kit guns that came from him banning assault rifle imports?

I'm certain everyone who bought an HK or AK before his '89 ban loved what happened to the value of their rifles!

 

[Doogledog]

Op,
I think you make some very valid points. I also think tomrkba makes a very valid point as well. I think the AWB had more impact on small, light weight, reliable and more concielable handguns than anything else. It forced manufacturers to look for other ways than producing high capacity service type weapons to make profit.
I also agree the AWB was a huge waste of a lot of energy that solved nothing and we shouldn't thank Bill Clinton for anything.

 

[illinoisburt]

JBT - got some good points there.

Living near Gil Hebard's shop back in the 80's and 90's, got to see some of the best 45 custom work around. Absolutely agree that the general impression was off the shelf 1911's were expensive jam-o-matics requiring black magic voodoo gunsmiths to tweak them, and even then remained fussy about ammo. Lots of folks wanted one of the built pieces, but they were way beyond reach to the average Joe. Seem to recall $2000 in 1988 was about the going rate.

All the shops that previously were filled with 38 snubbies were quickly overran with wondernines. Sure there were urban legends about jean jackets and leather biker vests stoping the old WIN 115gr silvertips cold, but there was a lot of load development going on. Thanks mostly to the 147gr Black Talon only a few 45 diehards were calling the 9mm underpowered by 1994. If anything, it wasn't just adequate it was super lethal and lots of political pressure was being exerted to scale back the 9mm. I recall seeing special news segments on 60 minutes and 20/20 devoted to getting these super powerful cop killer bullets off the market (funny having gun controllers like Sara Brady on camera bemoaning the inner city gangs dropping their old saturday night specials for tech-9's).

Sad to say but the manufacturers did fold and pulled most of the better performing ammo from the civilian market, leaving us to fall back to old ball and JHP ammo that we all felt was subpar. That plus plenty of hype following the new pocket pistols in "powerful" 40 and 45 has once again reinforced the weak 9mm image.

IMO the gun control crowd was peaking in power at the time of the AWB. They were not shy at all about wanting to ban everything and anything possible. Prior to the fall election sweep by Gingrinch republicans, there was serious concern that we were about to see end of "non-sporting" guns in the US. Heck gun manufacturers were so scared that they were making deals with the government to hopefully get a special extemption to stay in business (thanks for standing with us S&W). Luckily the sweep of congress (first time R majority in 40 years) was deemed by the elites to be the result of NRA work and gun control over-reach, or we would all have been SOL.

The news media was pushing lots of sensational stories of the bloods/crips gang wars and the crack epidemic constantly. It helped drive the AWB more than anything else. All you heard about was people being mowed down with cheap chinese AKs and SKSs in LA and the devil himself showed up all over the east coast in DC and Boston: Tech-9 pistols (Ultimate light weight $100 wondernine that rarely if ever jammed using 30 mags of any 9mm ammo you could possibly stuff into it. Sold like crazy and became a gang status symbol. Deemed so super awesome good that they ended up recategorized destructive devices. At least a couple times a month the national news programs devoted time to demonizing that gun and the 9mm ammo.)

EDIT: I would note that you really don't see the same type of marketing hype over handgun bullets anymore. I think the designers got the hint that creating the image of a super killer bullet draws unwanted attention from certain crowds, prompting newspeople to go in search of victims for great storytelling.

And yes I do very much appreciate how much better and more affordable 1911's are today

 

[420Stainless]

Maybe someone else can - I'm too old. I loved the 1911 before the advent of wondernines and never bought or wanted a wondernine. Still don't have one and am pretty sure that even now that there are some with grips small enough for me to comfortably shoot I won't get one. I may get a wonderfortyfive one of these days (Springfield XD type or SIG 227) though, so I guess for that I can thank the sunsetting of Bill's handywork and that the market rebounded for modern capacities despite the abundance of 1911s.

Actually the above is somewhat untrue. I have always lusted for a nice 9mm BHP, but never quite enough to spring for one (yet).

 

[ugaarguy]

There is strong merit to the argument that the resurgence in 1911 popularity was caused by the 1994 AWB. However, the OP is too much an anti-Clinton political rant for this to stay alive.