Your #2 requirement of a carry gun?

[JohnBiltz]

You guys buy guns differently than I do. If I was looking for a new carry I would have a series of deal breakers. All would be equally important because I'm not buying a carry without these features so in no particular order. Reliable, fortunately this is easier today. No safety. 9mm. Small and light enough to carry. Big enough to shoot and handle. Capacity, I want 10 rounds minimum. Proven design, there are just too many recalls of new pistols, I'm not risking my life based on fashion or gee whiz. How it shoots, there is no point to it if it doesn't hit where you want it to quickly. I prefer to rent one but sometimes that is not possible so often that is not a factor you know until you buy one unfortunately. Price, it matters... a lot.

 

[fastbolt]

Interesting prioritization in making some sort of "list" when it comes to a handgun carried for a dedicated defensive weapon.

Me?

I don't have a "fixed" set of criteria, mostly because whenever I look at selecting, adding, changing, etc my choice of retirement CCW handgun, I look at it from the perspective of the circumstances in which I anticipate carrying & using it, and what I envision may be involved when using it.

Good quality, of modern manufacture from a major manufacturer? Of course.

Quality & ease of manufacturer warranty/parts support? Goes without saying, I'd think.

Reliable? Also goes without saying, or I'd not be considering it in the first place. I usually prefer to wait until a new design has been out in LE & private owner hands for a couple of years, or more, before I consider owning one. I've found myself an unwitting Beta tester and I didn't care for the experience. (LE users can break guns with alacrity, and reveal unsuspected user-related/caused susceptibility issues that somehow always seem to slip by engineers & factory shooters. )

Can I get the ammunition easily enough? Niche calibers, or calibers which aren't supported by the major ammo companies to make it easy to pick something from any and all of the major American companies, don't interest me at all anymore.

Appropriate for the conditions, circumstances and situations in which I plan to carry it? Again, of course, or else why am I bothering?

Does the design conform to my existing skillset, or only require a fairly simple change to make it worthwhile?

Is there enough holster/carry method support for it which satisfies me, for my needs, preferences, etc? The HK P9S .45 was less-than-optimal for me in this regard many years ago.

Ease of user maintenance? Yes, although this is a far different consideration than ease of armorer level maintenance, support & repair. Over the years as I've added different makes/models to my list of armorer certifications, I've found it easier to stay within the growing list of firearms for which I've been trained to support, maintain & repair myself. Picking up a LCP was the first deviation from this preference in some years, but it wasn't enough to stop me from buying & using one.

Caliber, finish, capacity, "tactical appeal", popularity (enthusiasts, loyalists, etc ) & such things, in & of themselves, are usually of little interest when it comes to choosing dedicated defensive weapons.

So ... not a "list", but some of the things that I usually consider whenever I find myself thinking I might want a new gun.

I'm the only person I have to satisfy, after all, right?

 

[mac66]

From a rational standpoint I would have to say effectiveness is the number Two thing. I never heard anyone ever say after a gun fight that they wish they had a smaller gun and less ammo.

Realistically, however any gun is better than the one you leave at home so convenience is a big factor.

 

[Bobson]

I'd say shootability. If I don't enjoy shooting it, I don't want to carry it.

 

[C0untZer0]

My Glock 17L is fun to shoot. Long sight axis improves my ability to shoot it accurately. The amount of mass out front makes muzzle flip and felt recoil negligible.

My Rohrbaugh R9 is not fun to shoot. But it is easy to carry.

 

[Gun Master]

Requirements for HG Carry

I know carry guns are often a compromise, and I would guess that everyone's number one requirement is that it goes bang every time. So besides reliability, what characteristic do you consider to be a top priority for your carry gun?

Is it ammo capacity, caliber, weight, size, shootability, price, accuracy, concealability, etc...?

Correct, reliability is most important. Next is caliber/power. Followed by acceptable weight, combined with method of carry (In my mind, they are one & the same). In reverse order, if you can't carry it, you won't. If it can't punch a large enough hole, you need more. If it can't be reliable to shoot flawlessly, every time, you will be a nervous wreck, and quite possibly dead. This is why my first choice is a wheelie (requirement #1). S&W Bodyguard Airweight .38 special meets #2 & #3. You are responsible for the last part. What is best for you ? (P.S. - IMHO & experience, the only autoloaders I trust explicably, are: 1911 (Colt & some others), WWII P-38, and CZ-82, but some of these don't meet requirements #2 & #3, all the times.) Confused ? So am I, sometimes. It depends on the specific times and situations. (P.P.S. - I reserve the right to amend this list at anytime). Be safe, and take care !

 

[gazpacho]

#2 is SIMPLICITY

The less I can screw up under extreme duress, the better. I am not an "operator". While I practice, I do not practice to the level one should as if it (shooting skills) were fundamental to my occupation. Therefore I follow the KISS principle with my carry weapons.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I think most of the previous posters have nailed it. Obviously a gun has to run right, that's a given. Not sure that I have a system of ranking the next attributes; it's more of a list and it's pass/fail:

• It has to run right. A gun that I don't trust is useless.
• It has to be concealable, or at least concealable enough.
• It has to be shootable (easy to shoot well and combat-accurate).
• It has to be effective; for me that probably means 9mm minimum.
• Reasonable capacity; more is better of course but I'd say six or seven rounds at an absolute minimum.

Price is a factor but not my main one. I'm by no means rich but I'll find the money for something I really want. I can't afford a Wilson Combat right now but anything up to around $1500 is doable if I want it badly enough.

I couldn't decide if weight is on the list or not. The gun should be light if I'm gonna carry it all day, but that's relative. I could probably live with the weight of a 1911 but I'll probably never CCW one again. There are just too many guns that offer more performance with less weight. I wouldn't feel helpless by any means with a 1911 but if I'm gonna tote that much weight I may as well wear one of my USPs and get 13 or 16 rounds.

 

[wideym]

Concealabity is the second for me. I would rather carry a pocket .32 at all times, than a 9mm, 40s&w, or .45acp that I only carry sometimes.

I don't recall a situation when an attacker has not surrendered or run away when facing an armed "victim". Not to say it has not happened, but if I recall recent news stories about rampaging shooters, it's that they either surrender or kill themselves when facing armed opposition.

 

[JTQ]

Good question. I hadn't thought it through completely myself so I was interested in what others would say. It didn't take long to get to what seems like the correct answer to me. I'm with Vern on this one.

Vern Humphrey wrote,
For me, #2 is shootability -- how well I can shoot it.

#3 is power.

I see it like this -- it's got to go bang every time you pull the trigger. Given that it went bang, you've got to get a hit. Given that you got a hit, it has to have the power to do the job.

#4 is concealability.

The M1911 does extremely well in all four categories.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

For me reliability is job one - if it won't go *bang* it doesn't matter if it is an effective caliber, concealable, cheap, has great ergonomics, etc. That's a given.

Number two? If you can't hit what yer shooting at (that would be accuracy) is doesn't matter if it's concealable, affordable, has great ergonomics, etc.....it's a brick if you can't hit something with it accurately.

It has to be reliable and go bang every time. Then it has to hit accurately what I banged it at. After that I can split hairs about affordability, conceivability, size of caliber/perceived effectiveness but if it won't go *BaNg!* and it won't hit accurately it doesn't matter what caliber it is or how concealable or expensive it is.

It's useless if not reliable and accurate.

VooDoo

 

[Ankeny]

For me, #2 is shootability -- how well I can shoot it.

Same here. Kind of a no brainer.

 

[kvtcomdo]

You are correct.

The #1 issue is reliability.

Not trying to be funny, but that would be #2 and #3 as well.

After that it would be "a reasonable defensive caliber"

Despite the commercial success of the smaller caliber, I am still of the belief that there are minimum calibers for effective SD purposes.

38+P; 357, 9mm, 40S&W, 357Sig, 45ACP.

Just MHO ($.02).

 

[Vern Humphrey]

^ Doesn't #1 being it has to be 100% reliable preclude the 1911 platform?

No, it mandates the 1911.

All of mine have been dead reliable -- of course all mine have been Remington-Rand surplus, M1927 Argentine, and the current one is a Kimber.

 

[Gun Master]

Yes, 1911 is RELIABLE !

No, it mandates the 1911.

All of mine have been dead reliable -- of course all mine have been Remington-Rand surplus, M1927 Argentine, and the current one is a Kimber.

I like 1911 with S&W snubbie backup . IMH(but accurate)O .

 

[DeMilled]

After reliability I look at caliber.

 

[mnrivrat]

#2 is caliber that has enough penitration to reach vitals in central body mass.

 

[Gun Master]

#2 reason for your CCW ?

After cogitating on this subject, I believe there is no #2 . Overall evaluations of reliability, power, concealability, etc. must all coalesce into the one gun you have decided is "right" for you, after receiving sufficient input from your investigation .

 

[TanklessPro]

Ability to actually be present.

Fortunately, I have choices of several types that meet both your "first requirement", and this one.

Like he said.....

 

[Nom de Forum]

I don't worry to much about reliability as a determinant factor because there are plenty of reliable choices. Same with ballistic effectiveness and my ability to operate it effectively. Comfort and ease of concealment are my main concern. If my choice is not comfortable it is too tempting to leave it behind. If my choice is difficult to conceal it will keep me from carrying in some clothing.

 

[Archer]

Reliability is the obvious #1 requirement, without 100% reliability it is no better than a paperweight or magic talisman.

Controllability/accuracy are #2 because if you cannot control where the round goes, then #1 is moot.

#3 is power/effectiveness, note that #2 is the limiting factor for this. Effectiveness includes speed of access, deployment, and accurate shots on target.

#4 is concealability, as this is the easiest to solve. If you are overly worried about how the gun goes with what clothing you prefer, or about comfort, you may want to reconsider your priorities.

 

[j1]

A good record of past performance.

 

[Gun Master]

Possible #2 For CCW

It's wrapped up under the tree, and it has your name on it ! Merry Christmas !!!

 

[444]

I never thought about this in terms of ranking my priorities in a carry gun, but now that I have thought about it, I guess magazine capacity MAY be my second priority.
Concealment is not on my list FWIW: I am an average sized guy. But, I carry a full sized gun. Personally, using the standard look at yourself in the mirror test: I don't see that a smaller gun hides any better than a full sized gun assuming we are not talking about some kind of sub-miniature gun. I played around with various smaller guns over the years and I always felt that they printed just as much as a full sized gun, and also had various drawbacks to them.
On a range, I can shoot small handguns well. However, the sights are often not the best but again, on a range you have plenty of time to aquire the sights and carefully place your shots using good technique. Having good, high visibility night sights is very high on my ranking.

I have always wanted to carry a Smith J-Frame. I am not sure why. But I can't get past the five round capacity.

FWIW: I carry a Glock 17 in a Milt Sparks Versa Max II holster. The gun has night sights. I own a Glock 26 which is the mini verson of the 9mm Glocks. I thought this would give me the best of both worlds. I could carry the Glock 17 in the winter and then switch to the smaller gun in the summer while still enjoying the fact that all the controls are the same. However, I found that the smaller Glock 26 seems to print just as much as the larger 17; so why not just stick with the same gun all the time ?

The cartridge the gun shoots and it's "effectiveness", "stopping power", "one shot stops", "knock down power"........ isn't even on my radar screen. IN MY OPINION, the difference between commonly used defensive hangun cartridges is minimal. Yeah, if we are talking about the difference between a .25 ACP and a .50 S&W there is a huge difference. But IMO when we are talking about the difference between .38 Special, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP............ IMO there is very little difference (if any) in the real world. I have been on internet gun forums for a long time and before that I read every gun magazine in print. I have heard all the arguments, studied the tables and graphs, seens the studies and statistics. It just doesn't impress me. At least some of this comes from having worked for almost 30 years, professionally, as a paramedic in a major US city and seen quite a few gunshot victims (easily over 100). There are so many variables in defensive shootings that I think, matter a lot more than a hangun's chambering. In the end, shot placement is everything.

Which I guess colors my response. Shot placement is everything. So having good sights, that you can see is probably my number one priority, even over reliability. If I can accurately place, even one shot, this matters more than anything else.

 

[Hondo 60]

I guess I never stopped to think about 1,2,3 etc.
Plain & simple,

Am I comfortable carrying it? (Do I feel adequately armed?)
If yes, then I carry it.

My carry options have been a S&W Model 38, an SP101, a Taurus 905 or a Keltec PF9.

I sold the Keltec because it hurts my trigger finger. - It stings, bad
I can't carry the Taurus cuz it doesn't go bang everytime. - some lite primer strikes - a new spring set may cure that
And I sold the SP101 to finance a blue 3" GP100 (which they don't make anymore)

So right now, I'm carrying the S&W Model 38.