Your .308 opinions please

[boneman_66]

Hi all,

I leaning very heavily towards my first AR/semi-auto purchase, but before I make the leap (or attempt to in this quickly dwindling market) I thought I would solicit some opinions from others who have experience with these firearms.

Here is a list of what I think I'm looking for and why, in some semblance of order. I'm primarily buying for SHTF reasons (with more urgency since The Messiah got into office), but practically I would also use it for hunting (deer, bear, etc.) as well. My other guns are Remington 870 (ducks), Marlin 30-30 (inherited deer gun), Savage .410/.22 O/U, Remington Nylon 77 .22 and Glock 17 9mm. What firearms should I consider?

1) .308 caliber - more "reaching out" power than .233 and could hunt with. Availability of ammo etc. I know they are scarcer than .223's but I feel pretty strongly about this criteria.

2) Versatility - thinking maybe 16-18" barrel for any in-close needs but still good accuracy 300+ yds. out.

3) Ambidextrous - cursed left-hander here

4) Semi-auto with abili for high cap and low cap (<=5) mags - for defense and hunting needs.

5) Magazine availability - Would seem to favor guns that accept FAL, DPMS-style and last AR-10 mags in that order??

6) Sights - Ideally could allow for easy scope mount but also fold down or detachable iron in case scope breaks or use changes in post-shtf world

7) Cost - Would like to spend less than $1,500 but starting to think I'm going to have to be more flexible than that

8) Wait time - depending on the wait time/back order status of some items, does it make sense to go with the 2nd or 3rd choice vs. taking the risk of orders not being filled before new bans possibly go info effect - i.e. maybe a Rock River Lar -8 fits the bill, but if a DPMS LR-308 is easier to get should I just go with that?

9) Attachment availability - being able to add bells and whistles like lights, bipod etc. is always nice but not essential

10) Reliability/cleaning ease - I've owned guns all my life but I'm no gunsmith heh.

Well that's enough I guess. I thank you guys in advance and value your collective input.

Boneman

 

[zombienerd]

Well... M1A sounds to be the perfect gun for you That's the Civilian M-14... There's several makers, you can get them with rails, bipods, etc... Scope mounts are a breeze, the built in sites are great...

Diffferent capacity mags are available but I don't think it shares them with other guns, I could be wrong though.

 

[Davionmaximus]

I have the DPMS LR308. Mags are about a 100 bucks right now for the 19 rounders. (thank god I purchaced mine before that panic.) That being said it is not heavy like an M1A and upgrades are easy to obtain. Shoots like a dream. Accurate.
The great thing about .308 vs .223 is that the mad rush for ammo has effected the .223 worse. I can find .308 almost everywhere.

 

[desidog]

As a lefty, you have to go M1A - I did.

1.Safety is in a good place, no aftermarket jobby like an AR.

2. Have you shot AR's much? If so, you might find that the ejecting casings will hit you on the right side of your forehead. I have a nice little circular scar from an AR .223 casing above my right eyebrow.

Leave the AR's for the Righties....unless you get a left-side ejecting set-up. i've never shot one, so this is where my opinion ends.

Good luck. -D

 

[C5Cruiser]

I'm a fan of the Rem 700 SPS Tectical.
I know you're a lefty but find one, hold and and see what you think.
Bottom line it is on how it feels to you.
Good luck!

 

[prelaw09]

Safety is in a good place, no aftermarket jobby like an AR.

some of the POF lowers come set up (or with) an Ambi safety for the AR10 type rifles.

 

[LoneStarWings]

I have the DPMS LR308. Mags are about a 100 bucks right now for the 19 rounders. (thank god I purchaced mine before that panic.) That being said it is not heavy like an M1A and upgrades are easy to obtain. Shoots like a dream. Accurate.
The great thing about .308 vs .223 is that the mad rush for ammo has effected the .223 worse. I can find .308 almost everywhere.

Somebody else feel free to correct me but the most models of the DPMS LR308's weigh about the same as the M1A/M14.

The 308L is the lightest LR308, I think, it weighs 7.9 lbs.

The lightest M1A is the Scout Squad at 9 lbs, so pretty close.

Most of the LR308's weigh about 11 lbs though, and most of the M1A/M14's are pretty close to that too.

I actually had to decide between an LR308 and M1A a few weeks ago. I ended up going with a scout squad M1A. Most LR308's are probably more accurate out of the box but from the reviews I've read the M1A probably has the edge in reliability. Both great guns I'm sure. Unfortunately my M1A is still on backorder so I can't vouch for that. I also chose the M1A because it can bequite accurate with iron sites, has good scope mounts that are easy to install/detatch if you want optics, and the 18" scout barrel seemed like a good compromise between maneuverability, weight, and muzzle velocity.

Good idea to go with a .308 in my opinion. For hunting I like to be able to kill at least deer sized game with my rifles (unless of course you're hunting smaller game whose meat would be destroyed by larger rounds). For defense, if I could have a full auto/burst fire weapon I'd probably want a .223 for controlability, but if I'm limited to semi-auto anyway might as well pack a little more punch per shot IMHO

 

[Average Joe]

I always liked .30 cal over .22 cal. Therefore anything in .308 will fit the bill. But If I were you, I would go with a M1A. or PTR 91 .

 

[Winston_Smith]

FAL's are very lefty friendly due to the charging handle being on the left side. If you are only looking for a 300 yard rifle the FAL will fit the bill well.

Easy to field strip, cheap mags, DSA scope mount can be had for $100, very reliable, and DSA also makes a quad rail for bling attachment.

ETA: The 16.25" tactical versions are similar to AR's in size and weight.

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FALTactical-Carbine-Rifle-308-Cal/productinfo/SA58TAC/

with bling

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-PARA-Elite-Compact-Rifle-308-Cal/productinfo/SA58ELITE/

 

[boneman_66]

Thanks guys. It's reassuring to know that I'm at least in the right ballpark as the M1A scout and LR308 have been on my 'short list'. There was something I read about the m1a that gave me pause a while back and I can't remember what it was - magazine cost and/or availability perhaps? I see that a lot of people like the FAL's. What about them makes them less accurate beyond 300 yards than other guns I would consider? I haven't read much at all about the PTR 91's - what are their main selling points? Given how 'scarce' everything seems to be, I'm having a hard time knowing what is a reasonable amount I can expect for the guns that we're talking about. Is is possible to post an approximate going price for a 'standard' version of the m1a scout, lr308, lar-8, fal, pt-91 etc.? I know there are a ton of variables, but if some of them are considerably north of $1,500 then I save valuable research time and focus on the others etc. Also, which guns in consideration are so hard to get that similarly I should focus my attention elsewhere? I haven't spoken seriously with my local gun shop about transfer fees yet - what can I expect to pay for that?

Thanks much - sorry for so many noob questions.

Bonema

 

[jpwilly]

The LR-308 AP4 "Carbine" weighs 8.5lbs empty and the Light version is 7.99lbs empty. Any bull barreled rifle like the standard LR-308's are going to weigh more due to the bbl. Here's mine. Only a little heavier than it's little brother!

 

[W.E.G.]

Price advice is very unreliable right now.

Prices are all over the place due to the panic buying.

If we make it through December without any serious legislative threat, I expect we will see prices stabilize and settle to near where they were in October 2008. The market could even go soft, as the panic-buyers and speculators disgorge themselves of their hastily-acquired equipment at a loss. If any unsavory legislation does get traction, we could very well see the $5,000 AR-15 before Christmas.

Right now, prices are what you find, and where you find them.

You would do well to analyze your needs, and buy good quality equipment that is actually available now. If you don't buy it, somebody else will buy it right out from under your nose.

My choice for a general-duty .308 military-style rifle is the FAL.

There are other equally-good choices.

 

[LoneStarWings]

Mag availability/cost is not a big deal with M1A's.....USGI mags are pretty widely available for 25 bucks for 20 rounders, 35 bucks for 25 rounders. Check out 44mag.com. I put $800 down on my scout and expect to pay another $700-800 when it comes in. I think some of the DPMS's might be a few hundred dollars cheaer. The M1A scout in fiberglass stock retails for $1726, and most places seems to be selling them for somewhere between $1400 and $1700.

Thanks guys. It's reassuring to know that I'm at least in the right ballpark as the M1A scout and LR308 have been on my 'short list'. There was something I read about the m1a that gave me pause a while back and I can't remember what it was - magazine cost and/or availability perhaps? I see that a lot of people like the FAL's. What about them makes them less accurate beyond 300 yards than other guns I would consider? I haven't read much at all about the PTR 91's - what are their main selling points? Given how 'scarce' everything seems to be, I'm having a hard time knowing what is a reasonable amount I can expect for the guns that we're talking about. Is is possible to post an approximate going price for a 'standard' version of the m1a scout, lr308, lar-8, fal, pt-91 etc.? I know there are a ton of variables, but if some of them are considerably north of $1,500 then I save valuable research time and focus on the others etc. Also, which guns in consideration are so hard to get that similarly I should focus my attention elsewhere? I haven't spoken seriously with my local gun shop about transfer fees yet - what can I expect to pay for that?

Thanks much - sorry for so many noob questions.

Bonema

 

[Wesson Smith]

I agree - I'm not sure where the 300-yard limitation comes from regarding the FAL. Mine's good to go well out past that range.

 

[boneman_66]

This is all very helpful - thank you very much.

Boneman

 

[robsc]

HK will release their 416 and 417 rifles for civilian sale later this year. Save up and get a HK417

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK417

 

[boneman_66]

Nice weapon - I wonder how spendy that will be

Does anyone have opinons on the Remington R-25? I know it's in the Bushmaster/DPMS family, but does it have any practical hunting advantages over its 'blackk rifle' cousins other than camo finish?

 

[boneman_66]

Couple follow up questions (sorry noob here):

1) what is a charging handle and how does that relate to being or not being lefty friendly?

2) does the m1a scout eject differently than say a dpms lr308 or FAL? should i be concerned with the eject of righty models as a lefty?

 

[RoboDuck]

Boneman, take a look at Springfield's SOCOM 16 . This gun is very much like the M14.

I have just received my LR308 and I love it. You can get these for 1300 to 1600 dollars .

Don't forget optics .

 

[boneman_66]

Can you get a 5 round mag for the m1a scout? Also, what about it makes it more eject friendly for lefties?

Thanks,
Boneman

 

[Click Click Boom]

I would go with a DSA FAL SA58.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

1) what is a charging handle and how does that relate to being or not being lefty friendly?

2) does the m1a scout eject differently than say a dpms lr308 or FAL? should i be concerned with the eject of righty models as a lefty?

Boneman,
1) the charging handle is what you grab to pull the bolt open. On an AR15 type rifle it is directly below the rear sight and pulls straight back along the top of the shoulder stock. On a FAL it is on the left side of the action above the trigger and mag housing. And on a M1A it on the right side of the action, directly attached to the bolt. You will be using the charging handle almost every time you reload the rifle so you don't want it to be very aukward to operate.
2) the M1A, LR308, FAL, and most normal style (Right-Handed) rifles eject to the right of the action, some times at a forward or upward angle. If you are shooting off your right shoulder this will send the brass away from your body. If you are shooting off your left shoulder, it will send the brass over your right elbow(and sometimes hit your arm along the way). If is something that left handed shooters have to get use to as very few semi-auto guns are made for left-handed shooters.

Also, if you want a 308 semi-auto that can be shot left-handed you could try the Kel-Tec RFB. It is brand new, has and innovative but un-proven design and will certainly turn a lot of heads at the range.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_RFB

 

[45B@cav]

It ejects up instead of to the right. Yes you can get 5 rounders for either.

 

[GW Staar]

I'm left-handed but right-eyed. Make sure you are left-eyed before you look for a lefty AR. I found that learning to shoot off the right shoulder was a quick and easy answer to improving my marksmanship...big time.

 

[ZombiesAhead]

I am not a lefty and I cannot tell you how an FAL would fit you ergonomically.

However, for all other criteria I highly recommend the FAL. From experience, I recommend a DSA STG-58/SA-58 FAL. I don't think they are that much less accurate than an M1A/M14. Some like the M1A sights more although I am happy with the FAL sights - at least with standard length gas-piston tubes.

I don't know about this arbitrary 300 yard limit. With a good top-cover scope-mount (check DSA) I think you could get some optics that would allow you to reach pretty far out there.