Your dream muzzleloading handgun

[piettakid]

How about putting good sights on them?. The roa has pretty good sights but i'd like to see modern red dot sights.

 

[maint1517]

I'm in the design concept phase for muzzleloading revolvers and derringers that aren't based off historical designs, that aren't reproductions because I think there's a market for modern black powder handguns given the state of gun laws in the world.

My dream handgun it uses no percussion caps as the ignition source and instead use primers. They're cheaper, they won't get stuck in the actions of revolvers, they don't blow themselves apart and also, I can use a firing pin in the revolver so it would make cartridge conversions easier to make and use.

I'd make it in various calibers, .31, .36, .44, and .50 maybe even .54. So far as I know, nobody has ever made a .50 cal or larger percussion revolver. Imagine a .54 caliber revolver with a 400 grain conical bullet going 900 fps? How about a .31 with a 9 shot cylinder that's removable like the 1858 NMA and also is loaded with conicals? That's an effective conceal carry piece right there for somebody in Poland or Canada or New York City.

I would like to see a Taurus Tracker in .44 black powder

 

[piettakid]

I would like to see a Taurus Tracker in .44 black powder

I checked that out at cabela's and was surprised to see the SS version of the taurus tracker only costs $30 ( about 5%) more than the blued steel.. But for some reason SS BP revolvers cost nearly twice as much as blued. Someone said the other day that SS is not very popular with BP guns and that may be why. Personally i much prefer SS.

 

[maint1517]

I've wondered about that myself. But wouldn't the stainless steel hold up better in BP revolvers as far as corrosion and rust?

 

[maint1517]

I'd hate to trust my life to a .31 black powder gun.
I have one but carry a centerfire .40 instead.

I agree. I own one as well but carry a .357 mag.
But... I must bring up a conversation I have heard many times in the past about .22 mouse guns. Would I want one as my main carry, of course not. But I wouldn't want to be shot with one either. I'm sure throughout the years, a .31 pocket pistol has made the difference between walking away and dieing for many.

 

[piettakid]

xxx

I've wondered about that myself. But wouldn't the stainless steel hold up better in BP revolvers as far as corrosion and rust?

I feel the same way. BP guns are much more prone to corrosion than modern smokeless guns so stainless steel should be especially popular among BP shooters. But i guess it isn't. People want that historical look.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

As eluded to earlier, the Clements .50 cal conversion for the ROA, and the Adams .50 & .54 are already pretty well known. By all means pursue your interests, but understand that .50 and .54 caliber revolvers are not a new idea.

 

[TTv2]

As eluded to earlier, the Clements .50 cal conversion for the ROA, and the Adams .50 & .54 are already pretty well known. By all means pursue your interests, but understand that .50 and .54 caliber revolvers are not a new idea.

Nor are they a common gun.

 

[TTv2]

xxx


I feel the same way. BP guns are much more prone to corrosion than modern smokeless guns so stainless steel should be especially popular among BP shooters. But i guess it isn't. People want that historical look.

I know when I bought my first 1858 and 1851 Pietta's, I went with the blued finish and the most historical barrel length and fixed sights because, yeah, I wanted the historical look.

But, with a modern BP revolver like the Ruger Old Army, I've seen many more in stainless than I have blued. So, I do feel that people are willing to accept a non-traditional look for a muzzleloading firearm so long as they're not marketed for historical appeal.

Look at the muzzleloading rifles for deer hunting. Most of them have polymer stocks, stainless barrels, in-line priming, modern scopes and scope mounting methods... nothing really traditional about them.

 

[OldFashioned]

I

I know when I bought my first 1858 and 1851 Pietta's, I went with the blued finish and the most historical barrel length and fixed sights because, yeah, I wanted the historical look.

But, with a modern BP revolver like the Ruger Old Army, I've seen many more in stainless than I have blued. So, I do feel that people are willing to accept a non-traditional look for a muzzleloading firearm so long as they're not marketed for historical appeal.

Look at the muzzleloading rifles for deer hunting. Most of them have polymer stocks, stainless barrels, in-line priming, modern scopes and scope mounting methods... nothing really traditional about them.

Like I said I'd be down for one but I do want it to at least vaguely resemble something from the past.. But I would want it in stainless definitely.

 

[TTv2]

I


Like I said I'd be down for one but I do want it to at least vaguely resemble something from the past.. But I would want it in stainless definitely.

Alright. I'll make it based on a modified Merwin-Hulbert design. That way you can buy spare barrels in various lengths.

And so when using a conversion cylinder you'll have a loading gate that's ready to use.

 

[OldFashioned]

Alright. I'll make it based on a modified Merwin-Hulbert design. That way you can buy spare barrels in various lengths.


And so when using a conversion cylinder you'll have a loading gate that's ready to use.

In that case I'll take two with barrel sets!

 

[piettakid]

Look at the muzzleloading rifles for deer hunting. Most of them have polymer stocks, stainless barrels, in-line priming, modern scopes and scope mounting methods... nothing really traditional about them.

Yes indeed. BP rifle manufacturers have been extremely innovative. Of course there is a huge market for BP hunting while BP handguns have, i must admit,. little practical value.

I too wish ruger would bring back the ROA though i think they should incorporate the quick cylinder swap of the 1858.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My dream handgun it uses no percussion caps as the ignition source and instead use primers. They're cheaper, they won't get stuck in the actions of revolvers, they don't blow themselves apart and also, I can use a firing pin in the revolver so it would make cartridge conversions easier to make and use.

I think it's already "doable" though not yet in a revolver...,

First, cartridge conversion using a single firing pin was one of the original ways that 1858 Remington Revolvers were modified to take cylinders that held cartridges...those cylinders were very very similar to the modern cylinders http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand...ions/1858-remington-conversion-cylinders.html , and they are where the idea was born. It's not a new thing.

The modern conversion cylinders use 6 firing pins, one per chamber, while the original Remington conversions had a firing pin added to the hammer, that went through a hole in the cylinder base plate to strike the primers on the cartridges held within. The firing pin was held in place on the hammer by a single screw with the idea that the shooter could, if cartridges were scarce, remove the firing screw and thus remove the firing pin, and replace the old cap fired cylinder into the revolver, and use it old style until cartridges could be obtained.

So you're thinking of converting a fixed cylinder that takes powder, to firing with primers. Well you might be able to come up with a cylinder that has threads to accept a primer conversion of a caplock. https://www.cabelas.com/product/Davide-Pedersoli-Primer-Nipple-Conversion-Kit/1608590.uts ..., though these can be bulky. Here's another one that is less cumbersome http://www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/mag-spark.html, but may be still too big. So something along that idea, which would maintain the handgun's lack of cartridge use, and thus not come under cartridge-gun bans.

I most definitely would NOT make it take smokeless powder. For the very fact that smokeless is a very different creature than black powder, and you'd need chambers sooo shallow to prevent the shooter from using too much nitro powder to over pressure your concept revolver's cylinder. Typically chambers use at least 20 grains. So Imagine you made your cylinders to use Lil Gun or W296 to give your customer a good load similar to a "hot" BP load for a .45 Colt? Waaay too easy for the shooter to use something like W231, Unique, or A No. 5 and end up loading twice the powder used for a super hot "Encore or Ruger Only" .45 load. Sure, you could make your cylinder from steel capable of handling such loads, but what will that do to overall price? Stay with black powder, and in fact some places the folks might be a market for your idea, they are restricted from handling modern powder in case it's used to make an IED....

I mentioned it's already something that might be done. Perhaps a Howdah https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_29/pistols-howdah-hunter.html converted over to use primers? The drawback for the Howdah is that the shooter is basically walking around like Mad Max.

How about a Bond Arms PT2A? https://bondarms.com/bond-arms-hand...oft&utm_campaign=PT2A&utm_content=gun-carosel? They are long enough to take a .410 shotgun shell. (they also have a 6" barreled "Texan" and a .357 long barreled "Snake Slayer"...all are long enough) Only have the barrels made with the breech side closed, AND with a pair of pockets to hold the primers. You'd still have enough room to load powder and ball or a modern style bullet made with softer lead. They are already designed with a firing pin, all that is needed is a barrel modification. The steel is made to take smokeless pistol/shotgun loads, so you could possibly use loose, smokeless powder, but I still think you should stick to black powder or a substitute. Only two shots...true...., so the person should carry a brace of the things.

LD

 

[Hanshi]

An 1862, .36 cal 5 shot Colt Pocket Police, any barrel length.

 

[TTv2]

I think it's already "doable" though not yet in a revolver...,

First, cartridge conversion using a single firing pin was one of the original ways that 1858 Remington Revolvers were modified to take cylinders that held cartridges...those cylinders were very very similar to the modern cylinders http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand...ions/1858-remington-conversion-cylinders.html , and they are where the idea was born. It's not a new thing.

So you're thinking of converting a fixed cylinder that takes powder, to firing with primers. Well you might be able to come up with a cylinder that has threads to accept a primer conversion of a caplock. https://www.cabelas.com/product/Davide-Pedersoli-Primer-Nipple-Conversion-Kit/1608590.uts ..., though these can be bulky. Here's another one that is less cumbersome http://www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/mag-spark.html, but may be still too big. So something along that idea, which would maintain the handgun's lack of cartridge use, and thus not come under cartridge-gun bans.

I'm not looking at converting a cylinder, I'm looking at manufacturing one out of billet. As for the idea not being new, I didn't intend it too be a new idea. Mine is just that the firing pin will be frame mounted so I can use a transfer bar safety and people can load every chamber and carry it safely.

I most definitely would NOT make it take smokeless powder. For the very fact that smokeless is a very different creature than black powder, and you'd need chambers sooo shallow to prevent the shooter from using too much nitro powder to over pressure your concept revolver's cylinder. Typically chambers use at least 20 grains. So Imagine you made your cylinders to use Lil Gun or W296 to give your customer a good load similar to a "hot" BP load for a .45 Colt? Waaay too easy for the shooter to use something like W231, Unique, or A No. 5 and end up loading twice the powder used for a super hot "Encore or Ruger Only" .45 load. Sure, you could make your cylinder from steel capable of handling such loads, but what will that do to overall price? Stay with black powder, and in fact some places the folks might be a market for your idea, they are restricted from handling modern powder in case it's used to make an IED....
LD

I would absolutely not design it to use loose smokeless powder. The capacity for disaster is too high and safety is also one of the goals in mind here. I've shot the percussion revolvers and at times, have had bits of cap get blasted into my face. Thankfully I wear glasses, so I didn't get any eye injuries, but there are some people who don't wear glasses and aren't smart enough to wear safety glasses during shooting.

Primers installed in the cylinders aren't going anywhere or fragmenting upon firing.

I would still offer standard cylinders with percussion nipples and hammers in case some would rather use or only can use percussion caps. I just know here in the US, any gun store will have primers for almost half the price of percussion caps.

 

[TTv2]

Yes indeed. BP rifle manufacturers have been extremely innovative. Of course there is a huge market for BP hunting while BP handguns have, i must admit,. little practical value.

Little practical value to people who live in places where better guns are available, absolutely. I see gun laws throughout the world becoming more restrictive, not less. Even in the UK, my muzzleloading revolvers could likely be purchased and they wouldn't be behemoth's like the 1851 and 1858 replicas are, yet they'd be more effective than the pocket revolvers are, save the 1862 Colt Pocket model.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Another vote for a .50 or .54 caliber revolver. No, not a converted ROA, too ugly. Just don't like the Blackhawk frame... It would have to be six shot. I'd want something like a Colt's Dragoon in a larger caliber. Maybe just put a slight rebate on the frame like they did to the Navy to help it hold a larger caliber. Modern steel should take care of the rest.

 

[drobs]

Little practical value to people who live in places where better guns are available, absolutely. I see gun laws throughout the world becoming more restrictive, not less. Even in the UK, my muzzleloading revolvers could likely be purchased and they wouldn't be behemoth's like the 1851 and 1858 replicas are, yet they'd be more effective than the pocket revolvers are, save the 1862 Colt Pocket model.

The Brits already have em...

Westlake Engineering:
http://www.westlakeengineering.com/

Modern DA Revolvers converted to muzzle loading (smokeless or BP) via a Conversion Cylinder that uses modern primers.