You're wrong, Mr. President
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White Horseradish
Member
rick_reno said:
You scare me.
Incidentally, what exactly is it that allowing people to break the law unimpeded does for our rights?
Gila Jorge
Member
For crying out loud Preacherman the border could be sealed....it almost was with Operation Hold The Line. There presently is lax to no enforcement of the border.
I believe in El Paso where I live, the catch 30,000 per month, latest figures. That's a pitttance of what crosses almost every day. They simply turn a blind eye. Amnesty is what Bush is after and he's flat wrong. Just like he is wrong on Islam being a religion of peace. My aching back. By the way there are almost as many arabs as mexicans crossing into the US illegally...yet the focus is on gaining support with Hispanic voters...what about stopping drugs and terrorists?
What about doin something about homeland security!
I believe in El Paso where I live, the catch 30,000 per month, latest figures. That's a pitttance of what crosses almost every day. They simply turn a blind eye. Amnesty is what Bush is after and he's flat wrong. Just like he is wrong on Islam being a religion of peace. My aching back. By the way there are almost as many arabs as mexicans crossing into the US illegally...yet the focus is on gaining support with Hispanic voters...what about stopping drugs and terrorists?
What about doin something about homeland security!
Nehemiah Scudder
Member
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We're fighting them there so we don't have to fight 'em here.
Sheesh, didn't you get the playbook?
Sheesh, didn't you get the playbook?
longeyes
member
You mean we're hiring 'em here so we don't have to hire 'em there?
Maybe I missed something Back When but America is more than just one gigantic historic Job Opportunity. It really is about an idea, not just employment. Maybe someone needs to explain that to Mr. Bush so he will recognize that assimilation is a critical issue.
Maybe I missed something Back When but America is more than just one gigantic historic Job Opportunity. It really is about an idea, not just employment. Maybe someone needs to explain that to Mr. Bush so he will recognize that assimilation is a critical issue.
The sad fact is illegal immigration makes money for some and in all things
greed is a major factor, doesn't matter who it hurts or how many, we seem
to have business and government leaders now in America who look at short term profit rather then what is the long term good for our country.
greed is a major factor, doesn't matter who it hurts or how many, we seem
to have business and government leaders now in America who look at short term profit rather then what is the long term good for our country.
River Wraith
Member
Seems simple enough...illegal aliens are ILLEGAL. Seal the damn border already!
JPM70535
Member
No one is a more dedicated Bush supporter than yours truly. However on the immigration issue I couldn't be more opposed to his proposals.
Guest Worker my butt. An Illegal is a criminal and should not be rewarded for criminal activity. There are Immigration laws on the books that specify the legal course to follow to come and work in this country. Nowhere is mass migration across the Rio Grande in the middle of the night mentioned as an acceptable method.
The notion that Illegals only do menial labor that Americans won't do has been blasted apart so many times by THR I have nothing to add. An illegal who will work for $5 an hour will get the nod over a citizen who will do the same job for $10 every time.
No one can question the work ethic of the Illegals or their reason for crossing the Border. If I were in their place I might well do the same. I am not them however, and I strongly reset their presence here and the financial burden heaped on my Country and State governments as a result of same.
The Southern Border can be secured! Instead of our troops being sent to Iraq, send them to Texas with orders to close the Border at all costs. The border can be closed. all it takes is a resolve to let no one in Illegally, Period~
Guest Worker my butt. An Illegal is a criminal and should not be rewarded for criminal activity. There are Immigration laws on the books that specify the legal course to follow to come and work in this country. Nowhere is mass migration across the Rio Grande in the middle of the night mentioned as an acceptable method.
The notion that Illegals only do menial labor that Americans won't do has been blasted apart so many times by THR I have nothing to add. An illegal who will work for $5 an hour will get the nod over a citizen who will do the same job for $10 every time.
No one can question the work ethic of the Illegals or their reason for crossing the Border. If I were in their place I might well do the same. I am not them however, and I strongly reset their presence here and the financial burden heaped on my Country and State governments as a result of same.
The Southern Border can be secured! Instead of our troops being sent to Iraq, send them to Texas with orders to close the Border at all costs. The border can be closed. all it takes is a resolve to let no one in Illegally, Period~
CannibalCrowley
Member
They don't work very hard at getting citizenship or taking their families off public assistance.bogie said:
Secure the borders, use force as a further deterrent. Those who really want to come here will do so legally. There's no reason for us to allow Mexico to outsource its problems to our country.
Sindawe
Member
Fence and mine the border, electrify the fence. Leave the bodies of those killed attempting to enter illegally to rot and bleach in the sun as a warning to those who follow.
Illegal aliens are criminals by their act of entering this country illegally, and an insult to all those immigrants and visitors who follow our rules of entry and immigration.
Illegal aliens are criminals by their act of entering this country illegally, and an insult to all those immigrants and visitors who follow our rules of entry and immigration.
I am a very strong anti-illegal immigration however I don't agree with going
that far and we dont have to if our government would simply tell Mr Fox
no more and if it continues there would be a money loss to Mexico which
again is what it's all about. Mexico can and would stop this if given enough
pressure.
Lone_Gunman
Member
If our President is for it - I'm probably against it.
And, hey, I voted for him twice!
longeyes
member
We are currently having an internal debate: what does it mean to be "civilized?" Does "civilized" mean you let your own country be slowly but surely re-acculturated by people who shouldn't be there in the first place except with your consent? Does it mean you are barred from using force?
This is exactly analogous to the liberal who would rather die, with "values" intact, than defend himself and have to resort to deadly force.
The concept that we can do nothing to stop or reverse the problem is a bogey we've created. We are going to have to come to terms with the issue that to do nothing is to gradually cede this nation, and its values, to invaders. We may have to do some unpleasant, hostile things. Can we? We might want to notice that other cultures seem to have no scruples about doing this to us. Who is worrying out there about the survival of American principles and values? Anyone?
Lastly, the idea that people just come here to work obscures the fact that there is a significant public services cost for every illegal who comes here. This has been well-documented. As with Wal-mart, getting cheap labor but handing over the health costs to the community, theer are some who profit but most of us wind up with an annual surcharge on our taxes.
We don't need Bush to protect the Second Amendment. In the end that is up to all of us. I would, however, like to see Bush protect that article in our Constitution that charges him with protecting the integrity of our borders.
This is exactly analogous to the liberal who would rather die, with "values" intact, than defend himself and have to resort to deadly force.
The concept that we can do nothing to stop or reverse the problem is a bogey we've created. We are going to have to come to terms with the issue that to do nothing is to gradually cede this nation, and its values, to invaders. We may have to do some unpleasant, hostile things. Can we? We might want to notice that other cultures seem to have no scruples about doing this to us. Who is worrying out there about the survival of American principles and values? Anyone?
Lastly, the idea that people just come here to work obscures the fact that there is a significant public services cost for every illegal who comes here. This has been well-documented. As with Wal-mart, getting cheap labor but handing over the health costs to the community, theer are some who profit but most of us wind up with an annual surcharge on our taxes.
We don't need Bush to protect the Second Amendment. In the end that is up to all of us. I would, however, like to see Bush protect that article in our Constitution that charges him with protecting the integrity of our borders.
beerslurpy
member
I read up a bit more on this topic and I have come to the conclusion that the main problem with this is not the people of mexico but the GOVERNMENT of mexico. For nearly 200 years, the various governments of mexico have basically been fascist kleptocracies. The foremost reason for the poverty of the Mexican citizenry is not education, culture or natural resources, which enjoy parity with their cousins to the north (remember much of the US was once part of mexico and is more prosperous than most of the other states)- the reason is that the governmnet itself taxes and also outright steals any wealth it can from its own citizens. Mexico has plenty of arable farmland, mineable resources as well as vast oil reserves. There is no excuse for Mexico to be poor, yet it is.
Many Americans perceive Mexico to be a lawless country in which goods and services can be cheaply acquired. In reality, Mexico is full of laws and regulations down to the lowest level with enormous taxes on everything. This allows low level government officials a foothold into every home and business to confiscate wealth, jail political adversaries and ensure that the populace doesnt become too fiesty. (remember, gun ownership in mexico is almost entirely unheard of, outisde the government and their friends the drug trafficers).
So why dont we spread democracy down south a few miles? We could topple the government in about 20 minutes, shoot all the government workers and turn the country over to a group of our choosing to hold elections in 6 months. Or we could take the indirect route and bankrupt the mexican government by legalizing drugs. No, seriously.
Many Americans perceive Mexico to be a lawless country in which goods and services can be cheaply acquired. In reality, Mexico is full of laws and regulations down to the lowest level with enormous taxes on everything. This allows low level government officials a foothold into every home and business to confiscate wealth, jail political adversaries and ensure that the populace doesnt become too fiesty. (remember, gun ownership in mexico is almost entirely unheard of, outisde the government and their friends the drug trafficers).
So why dont we spread democracy down south a few miles? We could topple the government in about 20 minutes, shoot all the government workers and turn the country over to a group of our choosing to hold elections in 6 months. Or we could take the indirect route and bankrupt the mexican government by legalizing drugs. No, seriously.
Waitone
Member
Yep, and then Mexico will stop selling us oil, lots of oil, at preferential rates.
Ultimately its all about money in one form or fashion. I've said for a while with respect to V. Fox that Bush acts like a man being blackmailed with 8 X 10 glossies OR there is lots of money in play. Don't know what it is but there is something huge driving the US willingness to absorb Mexico's social malcontents, poor, dissidents, and criminal element. Some would say we need the criminal aliens to pay for the upcoming social security fiasco. Don't think so; you don't get the low end of the wage scale to pay down the SS deficit. High end workers in huge quantities is the way it is done. I still suspect oil in involved.
The illegals are a benefit is complete BS. 90% of the united states is a net DRAG on society, they consume proportionately more than they pay in taxes.
The bottom of the barrel for wages is just a greater drag.
All the illegals should be rounded up and deported. sure housing costs in Texas will no longer be the lowest in the country and those who buy cheap clothes will have to pay more but the cost savings in everything else will be huge.
The bottom of the barrel for wages is just a greater drag.
All the illegals should be rounded up and deported. sure housing costs in Texas will no longer be the lowest in the country and those who buy cheap clothes will have to pay more but the cost savings in everything else will be huge.
I, for one, am another closed border libertarian.
illegal immigrants hurt our economy, drive our crime rate up, etc.
I'd fence, mine, and electrify the border. With the right set up, I've heard that a team of 10 soldiers can shut down something like a 100 miles of border. It can be done.
After that, I'd also have a strict policy of fining employers and shipping illegals back.
Finally, I would make legal immigration easier. Passport, criminal check, pre-paid ticket back to where they came from (can cash it back in when they get their citizenship), DNA/biometric recording, and they're good to go. They would be ineligable for all but emergency services. Welcome to America!
illegal immigrants hurt our economy, drive our crime rate up, etc.
I'd fence, mine, and electrify the border. With the right set up, I've heard that a team of 10 soldiers can shut down something like a 100 miles of border. It can be done.
After that, I'd also have a strict policy of fining employers and shipping illegals back.
Finally, I would make legal immigration easier. Passport, criminal check, pre-paid ticket back to where they came from (can cash it back in when they get their citizenship), DNA/biometric recording, and they're good to go. They would be ineligable for all but emergency services. Welcome to America!
spartacus2002
Member
Issue Letters of Marque and Reprisal to civilian border groups.
Master Blaster
Member
That's BullSheet we had 100-200 Billion for IRAQ and can't afford $20 billion plus $2 billion a year to secure US Borders??????? The fact is that the US employers are getting a break in expenses by hiring illegals, and they are getting that break by stealing money from my children, because I have to pay the incresed healthcare costs, and taxes that are needed to take care of the illegals, and the crime they bring with them.
If we are so short of workers, then set up 50 new tables at the US Consulate to process legal visa applications. The fact is that big companies and small ones are cheap bastards and want me to Pay for their cheap labor, and they are jeapordizing our security to do it.
How many of you folks have money in the stock market to pay for your retirement or child's education??? If some ALQUEDA turd or other dirt bags get in over the open border and blow up something important or set off a dirty bomb, what will your retirement/savings be worth then, if yoou are still alive to worry about it??? We are talking 100's of billion of dollars of savings wiped out over night. WHY so Walmart can get cheap labor to clean the toilets????? So Why Me's boss can drive a new Lexus instead of a new Cadillac???.
This is short sighted nonsense, for every dollar saved by cheap labor there are two dollars in hidden costs borne by honest folks like us. Bush is just aiding crimminals. Plain and simple, call your congressman, and voice your opposition to this crap. Insist that us businesses be prosecuted for this, if it cost them 4x what they saved they will stop it real fast.
We can secure our borders, we can deport illegals effectively dont let these crooks lie to you.
13A
Member
Why don't many people get the "illegal" part of illegal aliens means the first thing they did when they entered this country was break our immigration law.
Could you get someone to replace that roof in 110 degree heat besides illegal aliens? Sure. But you would have to pay a good wage for American citizens to do it.
And not ALL illegal aliens work. Some sponge of our social services. Even those who do work may draw on our Social Security through disability (real or not). Do you think all those lawyers who do nothing but SS disability claims rely exclusively on American citizens?
The IRS does NOT require a Social Security number anymore, just a Taxpayer Identification Number. So the federal government really doesn't care. Meanwhile the wage scale in this country drifts ever lower.
Illegal means illegal.
Could you get someone to replace that roof in 110 degree heat besides illegal aliens? Sure. But you would have to pay a good wage for American citizens to do it.
And not ALL illegal aliens work. Some sponge of our social services. Even those who do work may draw on our Social Security through disability (real or not). Do you think all those lawyers who do nothing but SS disability claims rely exclusively on American citizens?
The IRS does NOT require a Social Security number anymore, just a Taxpayer Identification Number. So the federal government really doesn't care. Meanwhile the wage scale in this country drifts ever lower.
Illegal means illegal.
longeyes
member
Well, that's very true. What's also true is that at a time when Social Security is already shaky--because of malfeasance by our politicians in never establishing the "trust fund" that was supposed to be paying the freight--we are "welcoming" Mexican nationals to the party via the policy of "totalization." Forget that people are here illegally and working illegally, the Feds say they are entitled to Social Security payments. Moreover, it is okay to count work time in Mexico--can anyone say that is verifiable with a straight face?--toward the amount of SS earned and to be paid. This is the kind of madness going on in D.C. and it is happening through bureaucratic policy and edict, not being argued openly before the people and taxpayers of the country.
Therein lies the real issue underlying all of this, pointed out by others on this forum but certainly worth repeating:
We increasingly do not have a representative government, and the taxpaying citizens of the U.S. are being both ignored and exploited.
As the man once said, what is to be done...?
Boy, nothing like immigration to bring out the high road in people. Bombing, electrifying, mining, gassing and who knows what else for people whose sole concern is making a better life for themselves and their children. What a great bunch of guys. 
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