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Zero tolerance gone too far

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Sportcat, Oct 4, 2005.

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  1. Sportcat

    Sportcat Member

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    Slow reporting in BB gun incident
    By Meryl Dillman Anderson Independent-Mail
    October 3, 2005

    School District of Pickens County Superintendent Mendel Stewart said there was no intent to "cover up" the Sept. 15 incident in which a Pickens High School student brought an unloaded plastic BB pistol to school.

    In a release, Mr. Stewart said the BB pistol was in the student's athletic bag. He accidentally brought the wrong bag from home to practice, Mr. Stewart said at the time of the incident.

    According to the release, the athletic director didn't immediately report the incident to Pickens High School Principal Marion Lawson. Mr. Lawson found out about the incident several days later, on Sept. 20, and an investigation into the facts was then conducted.

    The investigation concluded that the reporting was delayed due to other intervening factors, not to "cover up" the incident, Mr. Stewart said. Appropriate corrective action was taken with regard to those employees who didn't immediately report the gun, he said, because they didn't follow district policy or state law when they didn't tell the principal right away.

    The release stated that the BB gun was seen in the student's bag while he was getting ready for an after-school athletic practice. A coach saw it and immediately reported it to the school's athletic director.

    Once players had left the locker room, the coach and athletic director returned to the locker room. They searched for and found the gun with no ammunition. They then brought the student back to the locker room to identify the gun. They told the student the incident would be reported to the principal. Unfortunately, Mr. Stewart said, the principal didn't learn about it for five days.

    It has been concluded that the student didn't knowingly bring the BB gun to school and had no intent to use it. But under district policy and state law, students can't carry any weapon or other item that can be used to inflict bodily injury or death onto school grounds. Therefore, the student was suspended.

    Meryl Dillman can be reached

    at 864-260-1269 or by e-mail at

    dillmanmk@IndependentMail.com.
     
  2. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    There ends today's lesson. Understand? :banghead:
     
  3. 3 gun

    3 gun Member

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    "But under district policy and state law, students can't carry any weapon or other item that can be used to inflict bodily injury or death onto school grounds."

    Better leave the pencils and pens at home too. Hope nobody sharpened their baseball spikes. Course with that rule the team can't have bats either..right??
     
  4. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    What does suspension mean? A few days? the whole year?

    I agree in principle. Zero Tolerance is foolish altogether. I am sure the principles like it since they don't have to think or make judgements.
     
  5. Jeeper

    Jeeper Member

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    I guess everyone will be naked since there isnt much that cant be used as a weapon.
     
  6. dasmi

    dasmi Member

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    Books. I bet I could kill someone with a heavy text book. Better ban the books. And I think it's best if our children are issued safety scissors.
     
  7. CAS700850

    CAS700850 Member

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    When those in a position to impart punishment lose their discretion, bad things happen. Such as this. Funny for a prosecutor to say it, but judges, principals, etc., should never have their discretion taken away, because there are often situations (like this) where discretion in imposing punishment allows for true and proper justice.
     
  8. haole_boySS

    haole_boySS Member

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    Zero Tolerance......Hmm, reminds me of an incident here in DC with the Metro system. There is a ZT policy that Metro has for Food & Drinks on their trains. Shortly after the policy was started, they arrested a little girl for eating McD's fries on the train. I believe she was 8-10 yrs old. I just laughed and shook my head.
     
  9. UberPhLuBB

    UberPhLuBB Member

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    Uh. Better get rid of all those books, pencils, backpacks, desks, bike locks, rocks, asphault, coke vending machines, baseball bats, chalk board erasers, windows, light bulbs, computers, pointing sticks, trees, calculators and chairs. Oh and don't forget the lunch food, one student could potentially get another sick that way.

    That is disgusting. That one line lets them do whatever they want in the name of student safety. :barf:
     
  10. Sportcat

    Sportcat Member

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    WORDS
    Words can hurt, too!

    Germs
    No need to infect people and make them sick!


    Must ban words and germs!!!
     
  11. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    Weapons? Don't forget that a sock with a bar of soap in it can crack a skull open.

    Kevin
     
  12. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    plastic BB gun???

    I don't remember any plastic BB guns.

    I wonder what they're talking about?
     
  13. enfield303

    enfield303 Member

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    I'm thinking it's probably an Airsoft gun. the only way to kill someone with one of those is to beat them to death with it. And that could take a while. :evil:
     
  14. CAPTAIN MIKE

    CAPTAIN MIKE Member

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    We've Come a Long Way Baby

    Boy, and to think I can remember the days when many high school basements served as the indoor rifle ranges for the school rifle team or ROTC unit, and the days when students could bring our hunting rifles to school, place them in the safekeeping custody of our home room teacher and pick them back up after school for hunting on our way home.

    Nowdays, they call out the SWAT team on the mere mention of the word "Gun" and they suspend students for bringing an unloaded plastic BB gun to school by mistake.

    What's next -- no peeing in the pool??
     
  15. Technosavant

    Technosavant Member

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    Zero tolerance policies have come about because of lawsuit-happy parents. If a school official would use discretion and overlook this incident, then when a true punk is suspended for bringing a real weapon to school (with malice in his little cold heart), the punk's parents would sue the school district and principle, because their son has been discriminated against.

    Zero tolerance is indeed stupid, but it was a rational reaction to the overlitigation of society. There were 3 choices:
    1) Hammer everybody (zero tolerance)
    2) Hammer nobody (tolerance to the point of stupidity)
    3) Hammer only the truly guilty and get sued (proper tolerance, too many lawyers)

    Since option 2 is ludicrous and option 3 gets too expensive for any district to manage, you end up with option 1.

    I had inadvertently taken a knife to high school some 13 years ago. When I realized I had the thing with me, I buried it DEEP in my bookbag (zero tolerance wasn't in effect then, but it was still a mega-suspension) and was forever more vigilant than ever. You've gotta pay attention to what is in your schoolbag.
     
  16. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    I never tried to kill anyone with my history book, although it did find its way into a fight once. Along with a trash can, locker door, desk, football helmet (well, I was on the recieving end of that one).

    14 years ago, when I was in the fifth grade, I loaned my knife to a teacher to open a box. She handed it back when she was finished, and thanked me. Even in high school a knife wasnt too big a deal. I got caught with mine once, and it was returned to me at the end of the day. Of course they always got to be a little more strict the next year. When I quit, they'd take your knife, and wouldnt return it.
     
  17. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I'd be more inclined to call it a "cowardly reaction" than a "rational reaction."

    It's time and long past time to control the nation's assault lawyers.
     
  18. Chrontius

    Chrontius Member

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    I'm inclined to say that the student should proceed to demonstrate how everything on his person -- down to his underpants -- could be used to "inflict bodily injury or death" if swung/held the right way. Then proceed to point out how everything the principal has in his office can be used the same way and then threaten litigation for the faculty flagrantly violating the laws governing school safety.

    The best way to have an unjust law repealed is to enforce it fairly.
     
  19. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Amazing, isn't it? We're about the same age and I remember similar instances. At the end of my fifth grade year, we were moving. My dad had bought me some non-alcoholic beer. I brought it to school to share with a couple friends. The teacher (from whom we did not attempt to obscure the beer) suggested that I put it back in my bookbag until after school and that was the end of it. The following year, I was told to keep my pocket knives in my pocket during school. Two years later, I was suspended for a 2-3/4" pocket knife. The following year I was expelled for a 4" one. I never went back.

    Now we have adults being fired from their jobs for legal possession of firearms on property where they have not been expressly prohibited. :barf: Something's gotta give
     
  20. Chawbaccer

    Chawbaccer Member

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    This "incident" required an "investigation" and a "news release"...........

    Is it any wonder that schools require more and more of out tax money and have such a bloated ratio of staff to students. What a waste.
     
  21. MrTuffPaws

    MrTuffPaws Member

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    Hey, I am the first to tell you Zero tolerance is BS, but ignorance is not a defense. The kid broke the rules, no matter how stupid they are, he should still face the consequences. You don't like the rules, then change them.
     
  22. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    I guess we'll be accelerating research into how we can temporarily separate kids heads from their bodies, then, since for as long as there has been recorded history (and probably a long time before that) hands and feet have certainly been capable of inflicting bodily injury and even death.

    So we'll just leave the hands and feet at home, thank you, and carry the kids' heads to school in little racks designed for the purpose.
     
  23. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

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    I wasn't always a professor.

    Before becoming a college professor (teaching educational leadership) I was a high school principal. I too had to work under "zero tolerance". In this exact type instance, I would not, and DID NOT suspend the student.

    The fact is that the admin. must assess did the child knowingly bring, and intend to you use? No and No. So, why suspend? Some times children should be chewed out FORCEFULLY, cram the facts of potential expulsion down their little throats, then, release the "offensive item" back to Mom and Dad to be kept under lock and key.

    For my part, and as a previous public school administrator, with a Ph.D. in K-12 Ed. Admin, and now a professor of that same, I say this "gentleman" was spineless. He hid behind zero tolerance.

    Wrong decision!

    Edit to add following:

    My spoken and written policy was that discipline WOULD be handled within 24 to 36 hours, or there would be no discipline. That practice put the responsibility for "professionalism" back onto me. besides, children have the right to get on with life. That fact really bothered...A LOT! Five days?!?!

    Bad policy, bad practice, bad decision!

    Doc2005
     
  24. Turtle Club

    Turtle Club member

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    I had a teacher in High School quit because they suspended him because he had a plastic, clear squirt gun he kept in his class. It was the size of a tape dispencer. He would squirt students with if if they sfell alseep during class. Not a lot just enough to make them jump up and feel embarassed. It was funny. It was'nt degrading. It kept some of us from sleeping. Well he had been doing this for years. He was suspended for a while because a student (not even in his class) saw the squirt gun one day passing by and was offended. I do agree that zero tolerance is too much. So it was a plastic BB Gun. It wasnt a carbine rifle.
     
  25. Strings

    Strings Member

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    Heh... I remember my art teacher in highschool (this would've been '86-'90) asking if anyone had a knife: of course, all the farm boys did (typical folders, and a switchblade or two). Several of the cheerleaders offered theirs (again, typical folders), and then there was me: a Gerber MkII. My Gerber was also used by the Chief of police in one of the local stores, to jimmy open their dressing room. Never heard ANYTHING about how I shouldn't be carrying it...
     
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