Zip Guns (Homemade firearms of the early to middle 20th Century)

[Gator Monroe]

Has anyone seen or collected or even made these Strange (Almost like innercity folk art) hand made crude single shot small caliber Firearms Popularized in Detective Magazines and Movies Prior to World War Two and born outta the Anti-Firearm Importation laws of the middle to late 30's ?

 

[carpenter]

The only one I remember seeing was back in the late 50s or early 60s and was some kind of configuration utilizing a galvanized steel pipe for a (smoothbore) barrel. It fired a 22 rimfire (single shot, obviously) with, IIRC, a rubber band actuated firing pin.

Seriously, by the time you got that thing into battery, I'd have beat you to death with it.

 

[230RN]

.

 

[Gunfixr]

I have seen and handled, if not fired the pen gun currently made by some manufacturer that I cannot remember. There was the Stinger, of OSS fame, but I haven't seen one. The homemade ones are illegal unless you use a piece of barrel or can make rifling in the one you make. Any smoothbore cartridge firing weapon with a barrel under 18" is either a short barreled shotgun or an AOW, depending on whether or not it has a stock, and must be registered with ATF.

 

[yhtomit]

There are still plenty of zip guns being made; the Philadelphia police dept. has an amazing collection of guns at their forensics lab, of which a pretty big chunk is zip guns; some of them are several decades old (even if they came into police hands far later than that), but some are fairly recent.

(And I'm sure a lot of people -- or at least a few! -- have followed the directions of thehomegunsmith.com to create a working autoloader, which perhaps takes us away from traditional "zip gun" territory, but it's still a homemade smoothbore.)

timothy

 

[Cannonball888]

Can someone else confirm that building a homemade gun (w/ rifled barrel) is not illegal or requires registration? Until I read Gunfixr's post I was about to abandon my homemade gun project because of imagined legal repercussions .

 

[CypherNinja]

Building anything you are otherwise legal to own is perfectly legal. You must do ALL work on the receiver YOURSELF, and not for profit, and not for someone else.

NFA items must be Form 1'd. Obviously, MGs are out.

Any and all state regulations apply.



For example:

If I wanted to build a single shot pistol with a rifled barrel, that is 100% OK here in Ohio. Again, I would have to do all work on the receiver. If I wanted to build a SMOOTHBORE pistol, that is also 100% OK here in Ohio. I just have to fill out a Form 1 and pay for a stamp first.

 

[Big Calhoun]

I don't know if it could be considered a zip-gun, it was home-made; essentially a pipe affixed to a foundation with a crude (read: manual) striking mechanism. Horribly inaccurate, felt dangerous, no thrill whatsoever.

 

[Belgiboy]

We saw a very nice collection of them at the Beale street Police station in Memphis. They have a small museum there that was absolutely worth visiting, you should check it out if you're ever there. Not to mention that BB Kings blues club is just a little further down the street and the BBQ is awesome.

 

[gunsmith]

the ones we used in the Bronx in the 60's

Were crude and very, very dangerous.
The barrels were car antennas, no spring.
Rubber bands attached to a bolt lock.
So accurate you aimed it at the ground in front of you to hit the tree behind you.

In those days no kid went to jail for them, if you were caught with them the police beat you up and told your parents who also beat you up.

 

[heron]

My only familiarity with this topic comes from an old Charles Bronson movie (one of the Death Wish series). Someone had a ghetto shotgun made from two pieces of pipe that telescoped together, and IIRC, it was fired by slamming the two pipes together lengthwise.

Seriously, by the time you got that thing into battery, I'd have beat you to death with it.

My guess about such things is that you carried it assembled and loaded, fired it when the time came, and simply dropped it and ran (or pulled out your switchblade).

 

[carpenter]

if you were caught with them the police beat you up and told your parents who also beat you up.

Those were the days. Whatever happened to parental responsibility, eh?

 

[Gunfixr]

As CypherNinja said, building your own gun is legal. Atf would like you to put a serial number on it, but there is no law stating you must in their regs. Whatever you build must follow gun manufacturer rules, ie. rifles have at least 16" barrels, shotguns 18" barrels, etc. To build your own suppressor or SBR or something other that is an NFA weapon, you must first send in the forms to get permission, and build after getting that permission. Any type of fullauto is out, due to the machinegun ban of '84 not allowing the manufacture of any new transferrable autos. You can make more than one, but they cannot be sold. Once you sell them, you are in for profit and manufacturing without a license.

 

[Average Joe]

I see this thread getting shut down fairly quickly...

 

[M2 Carbine]

gunsmith

Were crude and very, very dangerous.
The barrels were car antennas, no spring.
Rubber bands attached to a bolt lock.
So accurate you aimed it at the ground in front of you to hit the tree behind you.

In those days no kid went to jail for them, if you were caught with them the police beat you up and told your parents who also beat you up.

Exactly.
In the 50's every big city kid could build a Zip Gun.
I got fancy and made my own steel barrels.

I designed a machine gun but never had the tools or money to build it.

 

[PAshooter]

Building anything you are otherwise legal to own is perfectly legal. You must do ALL work on the receiver YOURSELF, and not for profit, and not for someone else.

NFA items must be Form 1'd. Obviously, MGs are out.

Any and all state regulations apply.

For example:

If I wanted to build a single shot pistol with a rifled barrel, that is 100% OK here in Ohio. Again, I would have to do all work on the receiver. If I wanted to build a SMOOTHBORE pistol, that is also 100% OK here in Ohio. I just have to fill out a Form 1 and pay for a stamp first.

Just to clarify what is meant by "all the work on the receiver." You can buy an 80% 1911 frame (all drilling and milling done except for the slide rails, and no s/n or other roll marks applied) and this does not legally constitite a firearm... meaning no paperwork or records... you're just buying a chunk of steel (like a pipe wrench). Finish it yourself and you've got a 100% legal, "off the books" 1911.

As stated above, though, you can never, NEVER sell the gun or transfer it to anyone else - you can't even legally leave it to your kids. Guess you gotta be buried with it

 

[Detachment Charlie]

I'll echo Gunsmiths post, execpt that after the cop told my old man, I got smacked AGAIN.
I never made another zip gun (not that I did before, ya hear that BATF?).

 

[carpenter]

Charlie in Venice, Florida. Whatever happened to the old winter campus for the Kentucky Military Institute? IIRC, the buildings were kind of stately. Maybe even historical.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The Washington County Sheriff's Department had a display of
weapons siezed in crime; I believe it included some zip-guns
but what sticks in my memory are the incredibly beat-up sawnoff
rifle and shotguns.

That said, there were 1950s rumors that guys took .22 blank guns,
welded the vented barrels solid, then drilled them out, to shoot .22 shorts.

 

[Citroen]

Not confined to large cities

In the mid 50s I lived both on Fort Bragg and in a nearby town (when Dad was overseas). Zip guns were fairly common. Most were made much like the ever popular rubber band shooters and most were less accurate and probably less effective unless you actually pushed the barrel into the body of the "victim".

I believe the book on the life of Carbine Williams (remember him?) told how he made his first guns - zip guns - from a bamboo stalk wrapped with varnished thread. All of the zip guns I saw fired a .22 rimfire and, with some, anything other than a .22 short would often launch the case back into the shooter.

I saw one that was made from a modified grenade detonator. It worked quite well but with the very short barrel had zero accuracy.

Interesting thread. Had not thought about those days in a long, long time.

John
Charlotte, NC

 

[1 old 0311]

I saw one about 20 years ago that a friend found in a house he was tearing down. It was .45ACP and looked like a large metal drafting pencil. I remember it was very well made, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to fire it.

 

[Essex County]

In 1958 the high tech build was a Hubley cap pistol, rubber bands and a swiped auto antenna. I guess they worked.......Essex

 

[JohnBT]

"In the 50's every big city kid could build a Zip Gun."

And some of the ones who did are still missing a couple of fingers. Are car arials still hollow? I can't spell antennae.

John

 

[Zoogster]

Seen a few years ago. I got to check one out up close when someone approached me to sell one. It unscrewed towards the front where the round was placed, then screwed shut had a small hook at the back which pulled a firing pin back and had a button to release the pin firing it.

Others were pipes, often one the diameter of the bullet, sanded or polished at one end inside so the edge of the round could go a few inches in, and stop. This essentialy created a chamber, with the pipe forward of that the barrel. Then another pipe that fit inside or over the other pipe was used with a small nail attached (inside the pipe so they were fully enclosing eachother when the nail met the primer) so that when the 2 where slammed together it fired the round. They would have other pipes comming off both pieces at right angles as rear and forward grips. So one simply brought the two handles together fast to fire the centerfire cartridge. These were often made by young gang members that had yet to aquire an actual firearm.

Another adaption was what was basicly homemade bang sticks as used by divers. It would be a couple cyclinders pieced together one holding a round, the other with a nail centered and a spring between the two, and an attachment that kept them screwed together as one item. This thing was put on a short stick/pipe. When it was smacked onto or against something it fired the cartridge inside into whatever it was hit against, these often used a 12 gauge shell.

Some people even made them out of tightly rolled up magazines that would fire once and the front end turn into confetti at the same time.

Often I felt most lacked craftsmanship and being more legaly versed I would keep my distance from them. However they are a great example of how gun control is impractical. These were often made by people that lacked much mechanical ingenuity. By people that didn't check the laws or care as they pretty much equated guns with illegal for themselves anyways, so how illegal made little difference.

Smokeless (sulfuric acid/battery acid turned into nitric acid, and used to nitrate some cellulose) and black powder are pretty simple to make from scratch even without manufactered ammunition. Metals cylinders are widespread. How hard is it to combine the two? When firearms are outlawed, only outlaws have them (and those professional enough.)

Of course building or making any such thing is highly illegal without filing proper forms. Since such things are total crap and not worth much, filing expensive forms to play with such things would be silly. So you are best off just avoiding them and having nothing to do with them. That is what I do. To illegaly play with such things you would be risking your freedom and your future right to own much more functional real firearms.

 

[Justin]

I see this thread getting shut down fairly quickly...

So long as no one advocates doing anything illegal, the thread will stay open.