Strings
Member
Ummm... High Road, people... High Road!
convicted felons have lost the right to bear arms.
I have taken an oath to uphold the law. I will not break that oath.
I haven't read through the entire thread, but has anyone here actually though about what it would be like to be stripped of what we love?
His story,which I believed, was he had met some girl at a bar, went to her house to have sex, continue drinking. He did not know the house was involved in the manufacture and sale of meth.
House gets a SWAT team raid and he is also charged with some sort of serious drug charge, ends up getting like 3 year sentence. To add insult to injury, he gets shot in prison by a guard while getting in to a fight with another inmate who attacked him or something. Almost died.
Let's say a riot breaks out in your neighborhood, and your next door neighbor (a non-violent ex-felon) needs to borrow your shotgun, what are you going to do?
And my point is that I would bet you've committed several felonies over the years and not known it. Because so many things that shouldn't be felonies have been made into felonies and thus watered down the term "Felon" that the only thing that separates you from these "evil scum felons" is that you've never been caught.M-Rex said:That's precisely why I don't run around committing felonies.
I call shenanigans.2. See above. I don't live next to FELONS.
And my point is that I would bet you've committed several felonies over the years and not known it. Because so many things that shouldn't be felonies have been made into felonies and thus watered down the term "Felon" that the only thing that separates you from these "evil scum felons" is that you've never been caught.
NineseveN said:I think you'll find that the relevant words appear in both the 5th and the 14th Amendments. But thanks for playing.
Seriously, our disagreement may boil down to our understanding of the 2A, and what level of gun control we find agreeable. If that is the case, I suspect neither of us will budge.
Tell me WHERE does it mention anything about those rights being able to be revoked from a free person for whatever reason?
M-Rex said:You are operating under a false assumption that people cannot control their base impulses. Please don't try to use others to justify your lack of self control.
Gordon Fink said:No, M-Rex. He is arguing that you have probably filled out a government form incorrectly at some point in your life … accidentally and with no ill intent.
~G. Fink
Zundfolge said:
You are operating under a false assumption that all felonies are things that are obviously illegal and therefore only "bad" people would ever be convicted of a felony.
Like I said earlier, if I assemble my Steyr pistol carbine kit in the wrong order I've committed a felony (that is if I put the stock on the gun before putting the 16" barrel on it) ... making that mistake doesn't require a lack of control of base impulses, it could easily be done by any law abiding person by accident. All anyone would have to do is happen to put it together at the range in front of an ATF agent who just happened to be there (or maybe if I accidentally put it together in front of YOU you'd fell obligated to turn me in to the feds).
There are many examples of these kind of "procedural felonies". Living in California you're probably at more risk of this crap then me here in Colorado.
But I'm sure I'm just lying to cover for my lack of self control and you really are 0% police state
Edited to add an example:
I hope you're never walking along in the woods and stumble across an interesting feather ... decide to take the feather home (although I'm sure you have more impulse control then that). As you're walking out of the woods you walk past a park ranger who arrests you (possibly at gunpoint) because the feather in your hand is *gasp* from an American Bald Eagle. Possession of an American Bald Eagle feather is a Felony. Of course in your world anyone who would dare pick a feather up off the ground is probably an inch away from becoming a crazed killer
You are operating under a false assumption that all felonies are things that are obviously illegal...
Okay, in theory yes ... good luck if you ever find yourself staring down the gavel though. Despite the whole notions of "innocent until proven guilty" and "the burden of proof lies on the prosecution" the reality of the situation is that you will be the one who has to prove "no ill intent".M-Rex said:If it's an accident and there was no ill intent, then it's not a felony.
M-Rex said:Am I missing something here? Felonies are things that are obviously illegal. Hence that's why we call them F E L O N I E S.
Zundfolge said:Okay, in theory yes ... good luck if you ever find yourself staring down the gavel though. Despite the whole notions of "innocent until proven guilty" and "the burden of proof lies on the prosecution" the reality of the situation is that you will be the one who has to prove "no ill intent".
I'm sure a fine upstanding citizen with perfect impulse control such as yourself would NEVER run into an overzealous prosecutor (especially since based on your posts I assume you're a cop) but most of us proles out here don't have a badge to hide behind or can afford top drawer lawyers to protect us from an overzealous prosecutor.
Add to that legislatures that constantly crank out new and sillier "felonies" (like a new law in New Mexico that allows you to be charged with a felony if your dog bites someone) and you're going to see more and more good, honest, decent people who are "felons".
Ugh ...yes YOU ARE MISSING SOMETHING ... you seem to refuse to actually read my posts. There are tons of things that are illegal that you would never in a million years believe are illegal (some are old laws that nobody enforces, some are created by extremely complex laws like the Endangered Species Act). Among these laws, some are felonies.
You can tell me honestly that you KNEW since you where in short pants that picking up a feather off the ground in the woods could easily be a felony? Maybe you where born an expert in ornithology, but I doubt I could identify a Bald Eagle feather on sight.
I'm defending a world view that says that laws should be rooted in common sense ... that punishment should also fit the crime and that the reality is that our legal system has drifted closer and closer to a jack booted police state and I'm amazed that there are so many people who gleefully champion the coming police state (I guess if you get to be the police in said police state that you really could care less about the injustice heaped upon the people ... some animals are more equal then others eh?)
Yep, most overzealous prosecutors are liberalsM-Rex said:Well, no, because I don't run afowl of 'overzealous prosecutors' as a habit. I have a gut suspicion that your definition of 'overzealous prosecutor' is a bit on the liberal side.
And if you don't you deserve to lose your voting and gun rights forever?Answer: Control your dog. Any questions?
I didn't say unenforceable, I said not enforced ... big difference (I'm talking there about laws that require you to get out of your car and shoot a pistol in the air when you come to an intersection, or laws against mustaches and such).If they are unenforceable, are they, in fact, crimes?
Weird means its right to revoke someone's voting and gun rights forever? And there I'm just pointing out that there is all sorts of ridiculous crap that you can be charged and convicted of a felony for?I can honestly tell you that I don't skip merrily through the forest picking up the droppings from various and sundry fauna. That's kind of weird.
Heard it all before and probably continute to contribute to the tainting of those men with badges who are honorable men capable of independent thought and proud to be called an officer of the peace instead of demanding to be called Law Enforcement Officers while they call their fellow citizens civilians.Yeah, yeah, yeah...blah blah blah...f*ck da po po, all cops are pigs, power to the people, fight da man, vast right wing conspiracy, big brother, Animal Farm...blah blah blah. I've heard it all before.
Yeah, those garden variety anarchists like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ben Franklin and all those other kooks who thought that jack booted enforcement of capricious laws was a bad thing.Your 'common sense' sounds an aweful lot like garden variety anarchist propaganda to me.
Zundfolge said:Yeah ... but oral sex is weird and liberal
Aye. Can you imagine oral sex with a Republican woman?