Bad news. Hunter loses it, kills five, wounds others

[Selfdfenz]

1. We have survivors. They will have their stories.
2. IF one of hunters that ended up shot actually fired a round into the ground in this man's general direction it will be found...or not.
3.If that victim's weapon was not fired the landscape changes greatly
4. And of course we are led to believe from the LE statments so far made this guy is talking to an extent. All part of the investigation.

This and many other soon to be discovered facts none of us are aware of today will figure into the investigation. Sounds like a big and potentially complex crime scene. For good or ill it's pretty much to the ponit that forensic evidence will tell it's part of the story and weaken or strengthen the comments of the survivors or the shooter.

S-

 

[White Horseradish]

Official statement here in PDF format

Part 1
Part 2

See for yourself.

 

[tyme]

The VPC is cranking up the PR machine.

Please give Mr. Sugarmann a piece of your mind, and let Bush know that any anti-RKBA actions on his part will not be good for the GOP's future.

Received: from unknown (HELO CTSG-WEB01.ctsg.com) (216.205.128.114) by 0 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2004
From: Josh Sugarmann <[email protected]>
Subject: Tell President Bush to Ban Assault Weapon Imports
Message-ID: <DELETED.JavaMail.SchedTaskAcct@CTSG-WEB01>

Dear Violence Policy Center Action Network Member:

Please contact President Bush at http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/ and urge him to use his executive power to ban the import of all foreign-made assault rifles!

This past Sunday, an SKS assault rifle was used to kill six hunters and wound two others in Wisconsin. The SKS is the "rifle model most frequently
encountered by law enforcement officers," according to a 2002 report by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). It has claimed at least six police lives this year alone.

As detailed in our press release issued yesterday -- http://www.vpc.org/press/0411wisc.htm -- and covered by today's New York Times, George W. Bush could use the Administration's executive authority over firearm imports to fully ban the import of all foreign-made assault rifleslike the SKS and AK-47. Unlike the recently expired assault weapons ban, such an action would not require Congressional approval. Although the President's father, former-President George H.W. Bush, and former-President William J. Clinton stopped the import of hundreds of thousands of assault weapons by using their executive authority under firearms import and trade laws, the current Bush Administration has specifically authorized the importation of SKS assault rifles from both Yugoslavia and Albania.

Please pass this e-mail along to others concerned about gun violence and urge them to join the VPC's Action Network at [link removed -- nobody here wants to join].

Thank you, as always, for your efforts to stop gun violence.

 

[GOT]

“Vang stated that at this point the only one that Vang saw with a gun was the first subject that kicked Vang out of the stand.â€

So the Vang-freak shoots and murders 6 people!!! Only one of them had a gun!!! He ran down and shot and murdered 6 defenseless people! How can he call it self-defense when one of them had a gun? That guy has simply lost his scrambled up mind...

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Ankeny sums it up nicely.

 

[itgoesboom]

Sorry,

I don't buy it.

First off, when we look at this guys history, we see a certain pattern. First, he violated game laws and was caught with 93 crappies, and the limit was 15. Next, it turns out he pulled a pistol and aimed it at his wife, and threatened to kill her. BTW, 3 out of 5 of the kids present backed up the story that he did this, and he himself admitted it, but his wife refused to cooperate.

And in the last year they have had to go out for 2 domestic disturbances at his home.

This just shows a pattern that A.) He has no respect for the laws that are in place when hunting/fishing B.) he has a history of violence.

Here he is, trespassing on private property, which was clearly posted, had time to remove his scope prior to shooting the victims, and he admitadly shot several of them in the back while they were running away.

And even if one of them had shot 30' from him (which wouldn't be justified), he would only be justified in shooting the person who shot at him, unless the others rushed and tried to kill him.

He still went and hunted down and killed 5 others and wounded 2 more, while they were running away yelling for help.



Justice would be to put him in a blaze orange vest, set him free in the forest, unarmed, and let the hunters hunt him down.

I.G.B.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

If I recall, Vang was picked up by some guys on ATVs further back in the woods and given a ride to the road. If he DID shoot in self-defense, would he maybe have told them so?

This whole thing just stinks. I always though it was kind of cool seeing Hmong out in the woods hunting -- figuring they would help preserve our gun, wilderness and hunting rights.

I know this guy is just one bad apple, but this is definitely going to drive a wedge between two hunting cultures.

 

[SPFDRum]

"I always though it was kind of cool seeing Hmong out in the woods hunting -- figuring they would help preserve our gun, wilderness and hunting rights."

You, my friend, have never hunted in carlos Avery....

 

[monsternav]

Vang is a seriously disturbed person. Even if his story is 100% truth, he still chased down and killed unarmed people. Interestingly, Vang and the womans story both include Vang coming back to the original scene, finding someone alive (You're not dead yet?), and basically executing him.

 

[TallPine]

After about 15 minutes, another hunter came upon the scene, told Vang he was on private property and told him to leave. The man summoned his friends via radio. Others showed up, surrounded Vang and started using racial epithets.

Okay, right here we have an indication that Vang didn't leave when he was asked to ... since he was still there to be insulted after the "others showed up."

 

[Beren]

One wonders if the guy who put up the 'SKS Owners for Kerry' website is having any second thoughts today about his Democratic leanings, now that his favored rifle is top on the hit list thanks to the acts of one solitary lunatic.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

"I always though it was kind of cool seeing Hmong out in the woods hunting -- figuring they would help preserve our gun, wilderness and hunting rights."

"You, my friend, have never hunted in carlos Avery.... "

Yeah -- I usually only hit public land near the Cities during bow or blackpowder season, and I avoid anywhere that already has a car parked.

 

[Legionnaire]

I feel pretty sick reading all this. Very sad for the families involved.

 

[Michigander]

Of course there are no laws regarding where you can relieve yourself, loudly sing 'The Star Spangled Banner' or light up a big stinky cigar, so taking another guy's deer stand isn't all that smart.

Actually, I'm not sure if it is a Federal and/or State law, but here in Michigan, if you purposely interfere with a person who is legally hunting, fishing or trapping, you can be arrested. Probably a misdemeanor, but there is some such law.

 

[Daedalus]

I feel pretty sick reading all this. Very sad for the families involved.

I feel the same way... reading the police report actually gave me chills... those poor people...

 

[benEzra]

The police report says it was a "Saiga SKS." Which means that it probably wasn't an SKS, but a Saiga. (Which is bad; I'm sure the media will try to spin that one. )

I had been confused about how Vang could have removed an SKS scope without hand tools, but if it was a Saiga that would explain it (QD siderail mount).

 

[cracked butt]

I have a feeling that if the hunters were the "rednecks" that the perp is trying to paint them as and that if they had truely had shot first, Vang would be buried in an unmarked grave somewhere in the Northern Wisconsin wilderness.

Actually, I'm not sure if it is a Federal and/or State law, but here in Michigan, if you purposely interfere with a person who is legally hunting, fishing or trapping, you can be arrested. Probably a misdemeanor, but there is some such law.

We have such a law here also that was put in place because of antihunters harassing hunters. The law does not protect "hunters" right to hunt while tresspassing or poaching however.

 

[dkochan]

Based on the police report Vang appears guilty of murder. There was not justification for shooting unarmed people in "blaze orange" clothing. Vang should be put away for life since he can't get the death penalty.

 

[outfieldjack]

I also found it interesting that he shot all of the unarmed people, but when armed people pulled up, he decided not to confront them. Worthless piece of crap.

 

[Gewehr98]

Was it an SKS or wasn't it?

Sounds like they want to scare the public, by throwing in an invalid reference to the AK-47 for good measure:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/11/23/hunters.shot/index.html

Some of those killed had multiple gunshot wounds. The shooter used an SKS 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle, a variant of the AK-47, the sheriff's office said. That type of rifle is common among hunters.

BTW, I can remove my SKS scope without hand tools. It has thumb knobs for tightening and loosening the scope ring clamps on the receiver cover's Weaver base.

 

[Gewehr98]

Just to clear up a misconception...

As far as weapons go- SKSs aren't very common in wisconsin. Most use shotguns, lever actions, bolt actions or semi-auto remingtons. When I heard the name of the perp, I feared the worst, as most Laotians that I know or have seen either use a shotgun, SKS, or sometimes a mosin. Its illegal to possess FMJ cartridges while hunting.

As a Sauk County resident, I've seen plenty of SKS rifles in the woods during deer season. Same goes for when I visited friends in Green County for a couple seasons. Low recoil, minute-of-deer accuracy, cheap gun and ammo, ballistics similar to the .30-30 Winchester, why not? One member of my immediate family is actually a DNR State Park Administrator in Sauk County, and she's seen plenty of SKS, M1 Carbine, AK, and the occasional VZ-52/57 rifles out there during deer season. 5-round magazines are common for most, otherwise a magazine block is used. And, as a news flash, there's plenty of soft-point 7.62x39 ammo out there on the commercial market. I've got oodles of it dating to 1999, made by Winchester, no less.

 

[PaleRyder]

Thanks to Matt.
I work with a guy who is Hmong, I consider him a friend, and he's one of the nicest, if not THE nicest guy I work with at my company.

 

[TechBrute]

I think it's funny how many of you are heading for the shed to get the lynchin' rope after hearing the fewest of "facts" reported by the same news agencies that you complain about in thread after thread.

Could he be a deranged psychopath who murdered 6 unarmed innocent victims? Sure. But that's not the only thing that could have happened.

You are hunting. Someone with a gun comes along and tells you that you can't be there. He calls you all sorts of names in the process indicating that there are other underlying issues besides your trespassing. You climb down from the deer stand and you are surrounded by 7 of his friends who make physically threatening moves around you. You begin to walk off and the one with the rifle shoots at you. Warning shot or bad shot? You don't know, but at this point you feel you are protecting yourself. You shoot and kill the man with the rifle that shot at you. Now his 7 friends who may or may not be armed are spreading out. Are they reaching into their pockets for their pistols? Are they really unarmed? Some are headed for their ATVs. Do they have weapons on the ATVs? Think of yourself being in that situation.

There are more sides to the story than are being reported. For you to make a judgement at this point is laughable, especially since your source for the "facts" in this case are the same bunch that thinks he used an "automatic" or "assault weapon."

 

[2nd Amendment]

Sorry, no. There might be an argument for self defense with the first victim. From then on it's a done deal. He shot them in the back. By his own admission. He asked "Aren't you dead yet". By his own admission. There's very little to "jump to conclusions" over because of Vang's own words.

 

[itgoesboom]

Techbrute,

According to the shooter, he chased down several of the people, including one who was running away screaming "HELP HELP, and shot him in the back, twice.

He then went back to the scene of the first shooting, and saw one his victims and said "aren't you dead yet?".

Even if the intial shooting was justified, hunting down and shooting the others in the back isn't.

This guy is guilty of 6 murders.

I.G.B.