Different Views on Gun Ownership

[haybaler]

When my son and daughter were very young I asked the pediatritian something about this. He said he had 5 daughters and a son. He didn't have any guns in the house. His kids didn't have toy guns. Guns were never discussed. One day his very young son took a bite out of a sandwitch and it resembled the shape of a pistol so the kid pointed it at something and said "bang". The doctor and his wife were very surprised and had no idea where that came from. His conclusion-"No matter how hard we try to raise our sons and daughters the same, they are different. Boys and girls are interested in different things." Now, there are exceptions. Not all boys want to be Wyatt Earp and not all girls want to be Malibu Barbie.

I started my kids shooting at an early age. My daughter at 23 is still sort of interested but not really. My son at 19 loves to shoot. My wife did not grow up around guns. She doesn't mind if I have guns laying around the house and she is pro 2A, but she has no interest in shooting. On the other hand, I know women who enjoy hunting as much or more than their husbands.

Men and women are wired different. Men are hunter gatherers and women are nurturers. I drool over a tricked out 1911. My wife drools over sheets and table ware. I have a lot of respect for women who enjoy the shooting sports. I also have a lot of respect for stay-at-home dads who do the cooking and laundry while their wives are out hunting and gathering. There are general rules about what men find interesting and what women find interesting, but as with all rules, there are exceptions.

I wish more women would take an interest in shooting. We wouldn't be fighting for our gun rights if that were the case. And, I think we would all be safer.

 

[Orthonym]

I know three women with GA carry permits. To a woman, they did not arm themselves because a gun is a cool machine that also happens to be a deadly weapon and that one might have to use in mortal Kombat against the Opressive State, but for very practical equalizing reasons.

That's why "Women and Guns" is my favorite gun mag; it is the only really coolly rational non-silly one.

I do wish the local "Books'a Million" still carried it.

 

[rust collector]

One development I've enjoyed in recent years is that the ratio of female to male huntsafe students is approaching 1:1. We see many more in class than just 10 years ago, and many are accompanied by Dad or Mom (parents are not required to stay).

The girls tend to be slighter of build, so many have a greater physical challenge with the shotguns we use to shoot trap. They are usually more coachable, because they don't assume they were a born wingshot. They add a lot to the class, and we are happy to have them. We are starting to get more interest from women who are potential instructors as well, and that helps to broaden the appeal and make us more sensitive to the needs of our students.

 

[jlbraun]

I think that some of it is hardwired.

COLLEGE STATION, December 10, 2002 – Sure Santa Claus asks boys and girls what toys they want, but, why they want them is a better question. The answer may have to do with a biological pre-wiring that influences boys' and girls' preferences based on the early roles of males and females, says a Texas A&M University psychologist.

It's commonly believed that boys and girls learn what types of toys they should like based solely on society's expectations, but psychologist Gerianne Alexander's work with vervet monkeys is challenging that notion.

Alexander, whose research focuses on sex differences in behavior and the biological factors that influence them, examined the monkeys as they interacted with toys. She and her collaborator, Melissa Hines of the University of London, found that the monkeys' toy preferences were consistent along gender lines with those of human children. The study was published earlier this year in "Evolution and Human Behavior."

Though the monkeys had no concept of a "boy" toy and a "girl" toy, they still showed the same gender preferences in playing with the toys, Alexander says. That is, compared to female monkeys, male monkeys spent more time with "boy" toys, and the female monkeys, compared to their male counterparts, spent more time with "girl" toys, she notes.

"Masculine toys and feminine toys," Alexander says, "are clearly categories constructed by people. However, our finding that male and female vervet monkeys show similar preferences for these toys as boys and girls do, suggests that what makes a 'boy toy' and a 'girl toy' is more than just what society dictates – it suggests that there may be perceptual cues that attract males or females to particular objects such as toys."

 

[Orthonym]

Yes, but there are always outliers on the ends of the bell curve. It's good to cut the weird folks some slack, I think, as long as their particular weirdness doesn't put them on the nasty end of the bell curve that has nice guys on one end and Charlie Manson on the other.
I think Mr. Derbyshire adressed this, in the link I posted above.

Some weirdnessess ARE evil. Most are just, uh, weird.

 

[Cuda]

Hey HG..

My wife born and raised in a no gun house in the liberal Northeast is very serious about the 2A and the right to own guns. She and my daughters shoot regularly with me..

So in my wifes case, upbringing, politics etc. don't apply. The daughters thoughts on guns may be my doing..

C

 

[32winspl]

Wow, I'd like to read more about the Vervet Monkey study. The first 3-4 years of my life were spent with my Mom and older sister, Gram and Gramps, and my Mom's 2 sisters. (I'm a guy). No guns, (nobody shot or hunted), no motorcycles, and no trains either. But from age 2-3 on, I was wild for all three. Gramps was an electrician, and had lots of tools. I could usually be found in the garage playing with his tools. Then Mom married my Dad (stepdad) and we moved away. Add a little brother. Dad is a hunter and fisherman. Until recently, he had little to no mechanical aptitude. Post 1962, we kids all grew up in the same household. Segue to the present.
My sis married a guy that loves to hunt and fish. She's firearm-neutral. My brother hunted once, (unsuccessfully) and never gives a thought to guns; but you give him a hammer and one screwdriver and he can fix anything. I hunt once in a while, but I love to shoot, reloaded for years, still love trains, guns, motorcycles, and most things mechanical. My wife (ex) didn't like guns at first, but ended up with my buying her a S&W 3913 9mm. She's not anything for speed, but accuracy?, she regularly outshoots her lifer Marine new-dude. Then there's my now 17 yr old son. When he was 3 to 6 yrs old, he came with me pretty regularly to our uspsa thursday night shoots. He grew up around guns, and people who love guns. He cares not one whit about them. Tolerates trains. I bought an old (but beautiful shape) Yamaha mini-enduro for him. He never even sat on it.
All I can make of this is that people are just different. Overall, it seems to me that nature beats nurture.

 

[Soybomb]

How many girls grow up shooting and how many guy grow up shooting? If your parents don't start you down that road the media will guide most people to the anti position.

 

[grog18b]

Last Christmas we bought my 3 year old daughter quite a number of toys. The usual girl stuff, dolls, make-up, dresses, shoes, and such. I bought her a toy cap pistol and a plastic badge. The wife kinda looked at me funny, but I figured "what the heck?" Let's see how she will react.

So... Christmas morning comes. She is eagerly tearing through her gift wrapping, opening one "girl" gift after another. After about 10 gifts she is happy with, she comes to the cap pistol and badge. She tears the wrapping off and looks at it for 10 or 15 seconds. Just standing there, staring. I'm starting to get worried. What could possibly be going through her 3 year old mind?

She slowly turns to us, her shoulders slump, and says "Mom, Santa brought me a boy's toy. I'm giving this one to daddy" and walks over to me and gives them to me.

This from the mouth of a 3 year old girl. She sees daddy going to work every day with his pistol on his side. She asked me about the pistol, as well as the badge, and tie tack and every other piece of equipment I wear, and now tells people I use my gun to shoot bad people with. Smart kid.

 

[RKBABob]

Men and women are wired different. Men are hunter gatherers and women are nurturers.

I was all set to write about 5 paragraphs... but haybaler summed it all up nicely in just two sentences.

I think boys and girls are also conditioned differently by society. Boys watch GI Joe, where bravery and rugged independence are celebrated. Girls grow up with Hello Kitty and Strawberry Shortcake, where all issues are resolved through understanding and teamwork.

I wonder how much better off the young ones would be if cartoons portrayed strong men and women with guns... who didn't use them! You know, that would be pretty close to reality for most gun owners.


More on topic: Every women I've ever discussed guns with has at least considered gun ownership. Most have thought about applying for a CCW permit, but are waiting for someone to guide them along with their decision. I think that women are a huge untapped market for any clever firearms manufacturer or dealer who decides to hold a women's firearm class.

 

[-terry]

I wonder how much better off the world would be "where all issues are resolved through understanding and teamwork." Probably quite a bit.

 

[doc2rn]

HG, I am going to try and keep it simple. I am a single dad of a 5yo girl. She likes to hunt fish and spend time outdoors with me in the summer. I do everything with her I would do with a boy. I encourage her to play with dolls and let her help me cook. We darn socks, clean our rooms, and do laundry together. She has only thrown one fit ever. I got her a blanket and pillow for her nap, fit was over and we moved on. She likes to do stuff that makes her feel good. She knows if we are hunting; her tummy wont be empty so she stays with grandma and plays with her dolly until I come back with meat.

What I am trying to say is girls learn through feelings. Emotional connections are a big part of their learning process. If something makes them elated and joyful you can bet they will repeat the action over & over again.

 

[benEzra]

Welcome!

My own opinion is that the biggest disconnect between women and guns dates to 1950's neo-Victorianism, when society was pushing a feminine = helpless mantra, and women were supposed to depend exclusively on men for everything. Field and Stream ran an article recently looking at how female hunters and shooters were ridiculed in their pages in the 1950's, as opposed to prior decades in which female shooters were seen as competent and accepted. So a generation of women grew up with the idea that guns and shooting was a "man thing."

In the 1800's and early 1900's, it was indeed far more socially acceptable for women to be gun enthusiasts than in the 1950's, from what I've seen. FWIW, one of my great-grandparents' wedding presents at their wedding in 1900 was a matched set of his-'n-hers defensive revolvers intended for CCW.

American women are now breaking out of that mold, and are an increasing fraction of U.S. gun owners (one Gallup poll from a couple years ago suggested that one in three current U.S. gun owners is female, as I recall).

My wife owns and shoots a Glock 26 and a Russian SKS, very competently, and obtained her CHL even before I did, as I recall.

 

[NGIB]

I'm glad I don't suffer the gun-hating woman syndrome around my house. The three in my family, wife of 31 years and 2 daughters, all like to shoot as much as I do. My only complaint is that when we have family get-togethers, they shoot up all my ammo. I truly wish more women were this way as I would not want my wife and daughters unarmed and unprotected.

My younger daughter just got married and as a wedding present I gave her an EAA Witness full-size in .40 that she had taken a shine to...

 

[K3]

Interesting thread.

My wife enjoys pistol shooting and is quite a good shot. She's not so good with a rifle, but we're working on that. Part of it is eyesight. Funny thing is, she prefers the loudenboomer mag to the poodleshooter.

My M-I-L is an avid deerhunter and makes sure to call me when she gets her annual 140 class 10 point. :banghead: I knew I should have gotten on that lease.

My mom grew up in Chicago and the family moved to Texas in '75. She's 70 now, but the years of media and Daley fed rhetoric have her a little off on the particulars of gun ownership. I think I've finally gotten her to understand that in Texas, I don't need to register myself, and my guns don't need to be registered. She's not anti by any stretch. She just doesn't understand. She'd like a pistol for home defense, especially now that dad's gone, and I told her I'd buy her one - AFTER she goes to the range with me for an afternoon. (Gift, not a straw purchase - perectly legal). She's a little scared of guns. When I go to her house, I always have something with me (it's a 325 mile trip). She doesn't mind that I have it at all, but I can tell she thinks it might sprout legs and start playing by itself.
My dad had a few guns, small pistols and a .30-30, but my brother pawned them off a while back when he was in his not so good days. Dad wasn't really into them but didn't mind them either. He never went to the range or hunted. Clearly they were both influenced by where they spent the better part of their lives and by what they hear on the news.
I have been working on my mom with regard to libertarian principles like limited government, liberty, and the true reason for RKBA. She's starting to get it, so I think I'm having some success undoing years of conditioning.

What does all this mean? Not sure, except that it's what I see from the 3 most influential women in my life.

Back to my wife: Yesterday I mentioned loading some more rifle ammo. I changed my mind a little later and just vegged on the couch. She asked me why I wasn't loading and said that I should go out into the garage and get after it!

I guess my observation is simply that with the right environment, even lowly females can believe in the correct things.

*Ducks and runs for cover*

I've seen plenty of rabidly anti-freedom men around too. Even here in West Texas, which surprises me. I guess it shouldn't, considering the tone of the media everytime an 'arsenal' is disovered. Arsenal meaning a .22, shotgun and more than 2 boxes of ammo.

 

[H&Hhunter]

NOT an issue in my house.

 

[bloodedsky]

if only the famed Amazon warriors were here to lend forth their expert knowledge with regards to women & weaponry!

 

[BigBadJohn]

My wife is anti but it's because she had bad experience when she was younger,
my kids ,one boy& two girls love to shoot .Plus I think the media has direct effect on how women feel about guns.

 

[Titan6]

My wife is a solid suppporter, hunter and easy on the eyes as well. she hunts, she butchers the whole thing. She did not hunt till after she met me though she always wanted to. Did her daddy have guns?... indeed.

People are different. Men and women are different in bodies, brains and chemistry. Parents treat boys and girls differently. Society treats men and women differently. The law treats men and women differently. To ask why women do one thing and men another is kind of like asking why are the moon and stars different? It is not any one thing. It is many things.

 

[Ske1etor]

Were you guys aware that the female officers that responded to the North Hollywood Shootout, none of them fired a shot.

I think that tells more of the female mentality about firearms in a blanket statement. I know not all women are the same and I know not all men think the same but women have more of a caring and emotional base. Their decisions come from the heart and mens decisions come from a bit lower..... Testosterone is the most dangerous drug known to man.

 

[bloodedsky]

aboslutely, ske1etor. testosterone is the inducement behind every bad mood, every pregnancy, every shot of tequila, every violated woman, every ad hoc shoot-out, and every bad parenting decision. there are rumors it's even behind the development of kleenex.

 

[hso]

Were you guys aware that the female officers that responded to the North Hollywood Shootout, none of them fired a shot.

I've never seen that before. Provide a credible citation for it.

 

[Vaarok]

The reason there are women out there that dislike guns is because we haven't exposed enough women to the sport for it to be a universal and self-perpetuating skillset.

Which is why there's so much of a push from the gun culture of today to take a n00b shooting.

 

[bluestarlizzard]

i am a girl. i look at the clothes in the VS catoloage. i enjoy 'chick flics' (or at least some of them). i read romance novels. my dog has a pink and navy striped polo shirt.
all of the above has nothing to do with my guns. i shoot a 1911A1. when i put .357 in my revolver (as opposed to .38 special) for the first time, i looked at my dad afterwards and said "whats the fuss about?". the benilli super90 kicks a bit, but then again its not gonna stop me. i think the only recoil that scares me a bit is the S&W 500. but then i don't have the need to prove how tough i am. i know i am tough. and i do relize that my upbringing was a little diffrent. the first handgun i ever shot (when i was 8) was a HK USP .40 S&W. but then my dad collects modern handguns, rifles and shotguns. until he bought me a .410 gauge shotgun when i was 16 (for snakes and an agressive pitbull that ran in our naiborhood) there wasn't a single firearm with wood furniter.

in fact, when it comes to guns, i'm pretty standerd on here. i have the guns i like and the guns i think arn't worth a darn. i pay attention to the cailiber wars. i roll my eyes at the anti gunners. i EVEN have my very on SHTF plans.
the only diffrence between me and the majority on here, is the fact that i have the genitic and pshocological diffrences that make me female. the thing is that that has no bearing on my abilty to put a combat effective group on paper at 20 yards. or my skill with a bolt action .22 with iron sights at 50 yds. it doesn't even effect my determination to never be a victim and to never stand by helplessly if my family is in danger.

oh and john, I LOVE GUN SHOPPING. did it ever occur to you that not all women want their man to make their choices? the reason i didn't like your post is because i don't like tea partys and dolls and i love guns (not so big on the cars unless someone wants to give me a classic mustang ) and i don't make the presumption that all men like football and beer.
don't condesend to me and i won't do it to you.

 

[LegalAlien]

Hi HunterGirl,

here is my theory . . . . it goes back to our Cave(person) days. Men were the hunters and figthers . . women were the gatherers and caretakers.
You can even follow it through to the animals . . . look at the lions . . . males will do all the fighting and protecting the herd . . . females will take care of the cubs, (although females lions are the hunters - or food gatherers).

I think it is in our genes . . . nothing sexist about it . . .I think we instinctively (pre-programmed from birth) gravitate towards what the species has been doing since forever.

Then, yes, you do get the gals like you (and thank GOD for such exceptions!!!) that will not conform to the mold and decide to also become a hunter and fighter . . . such as Joan of Arc . . .and then also the other side of the coin . .you will find some men who will be more comfortable to take on the 'historical female' role (within physical limits of course)

just my ramblings .. . .