My view on gun ownership

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Vincent Vash

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This is just my 2 cents, but I thought I would try and contribute.

I am a Democrat, but I support the personal right to own a firearm. I don't see why law-abiding citizens can't own a firearm. While I think precautions should be put in place in the purchase of firearms, especially to minors. I think that if people would just stop being so scared about the issue, and would look more on a compromising view, then perhaps rational gun laws could be established. I mean, criminals are going to get guns even if they are illegal. So, whats the point of not having anyway to defend yourself? I, personally, just want to target shoot, and have little interest in hand-guns.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it should be not a liberal vs republican thing. Both sides make good points. Extremists on either side scare me a little. I think people just need to think for themselves.

Ok, I have blabbed long enough.

Thoughts?
 
Get your fellow Democrats to understand that one simple fact you stated:
I mean, criminals are going to get guns even if they are illegal. So, whats the point of not having anyway to defend yourself?

And you will have gone a long way to bridging the gap.
 
Find me a Democrat who agrees that we actually do have the right to keep and bear arms -- like the Constitution says -- and you have found a Democrat I will vote for.

But I will expect him to work for universal carry -- I can carry a gun in any state I visit, except those with high crime rates. I should be able to carry in any state -- with no hassles.
 
What he means is that most Democrats I have talked to and most Democratic politicians seem to believe that if guns are banned criminals will suddenly stop using them...
 
As a person who has recently switched from 3rd party voting to Democratic ticket voting, I too would like a Dem with a pro-2nd amendment stance. There's a few out there. Damn few.
Which amazes me, since I really feel gun ownership and the right to be able to protect yourself is a value more liberals would share if they weren't so scared of anything revolving around guns.
Fear tactics implemented by campaigns from the Brady Bunch and the likes are the real culprit. Get past the fear and doesn't it make sense that you have a right to protect your own life?
 
I think that if people would just stop being so scared about the issue, and would look more on a compromising view, then perhaps rational gun laws could be established.

I think there is enough gun laws as it is. Actually I think there are to many gun laws now. So what rational gun laws are you talking about?

Since when did a Right have to have rational laws attached to it? The dems say only cops and retired millitary should have them. Is that your thinking?
 
"I think that if people would just stop being so scared about the issue, and would look more on a compromising view, then perhaps rational gun laws could be established."

there are 20,000 or so gun laws already. so i miss your point. the ones passed already aren't rational enough? i think we need fewer laws that are consistent across the country.
Something along the lines of you can carry a gun anywhere, but commit a crime using it and you get the book thrown at you.
Simple, rational.
 
Since when did a Right have to have rational laws attached to it
Since crazy people do crazy things. I see nothing wrong with background checks. No reason to have the mentally adjudicated or felons able to carry a weapon, is there?
 
@glock23az - What I mean is fewer laws that don't make sense and more that do. I agree with kcshooter.
 
No reason to have the mentally adjudicated or felons able to carry a weapon, is there?

If they're so dangerous, lock them away. Until then, they're going to have access to a hell of a lot more than firearms if they want to do harm to themselves or others. Enacting laws to restrict their access to only one small class of potential weapons seems a little silly, don't you think?
 
Since crazy people do crazy things. I see nothing wrong with background checks. No reason to have the mentally adjudicated or felons able to carry a weapon, is there?

But sincve I'm not crazy or a convicted felon, why should I have to have a license to exercise a Constitutional right? Or go through a waiting period? Or submit to limits on what guns I can own, how many I can have, and so on?
 
Since crazy people do crazy things. I see nothing wrong with background checks. No reason to have the mentally adjudicated or felons able to carry a weapon, is there?

That law is already in place. But the thoughts crime bill isn't

BATF:
"Well I think that person might go crazy some day or he might lose a job and go postal, or he might break up with his girl friend and shoot up a school. We should be better safe than sorry"

DENIED!!!
 
Maybe I should never have posted this.

But, since I have, I am not crazy either (at least I would like to think im sane) but yes, what is the big rush? What is the problem with a background check?

I think perhaps one you clear it once you should be all set, ut the first time its not going to kill you to wait.
 
I guess what I am trying to say is that it should be not a liberal vs republican thing. Both sides make good points. Extremists on either side scare me a little.

Yeah, it shouldn't be a liberal vs conservative thing, but it is, and the reasons why:

Feinstein
Lautenberg
Clinton
Schumer
Pelosi
Obama
Durbin
Boxer
McCarthy
Bloomberg (please nobody tell me that he is a conservative or I will die laughing)
Kerry
Kennedy
Mayor Daley (Chicago)
Mayor Fenty (Washington DC)
Governor Rod R. Blagojevich (Illinois)

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce you to the lunatic fringe when it comes to anti-gunners.

There may be 1 or 2 extremists on the pro-gun side, but they don't get any press. Some say Uncle Ted Nugent is an extremist, but LISTEN to the man, he is as well read, well spoken, and factual as you can find. He may say things that boil other peoples blood, but we have no finer warrior in the fight for the 2nd amendment.

I'm a registered independent, but for the life of me I can't understand how a gun owner that cares about their gun rights, can vote for a liberal anti-gunner. It is like a chicken making Colonel Sanders the president. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

You Democrats that are members here, if you can explain the actions of your party and its leaders, I'm sure all of us would be interested.
 
@Vern Humphrey - I don't know enough nor claim to know enough about the individual laws. But I do not think that not having ANY restrictions is smart. Since we obviously disagree on this, I'll leave it at that.

@camslam - I cannot explain the actions of the democratic party. When I say I am liberal I mean that although I am still independent in my thoughts, and like to hear both sides of a debate, I do tend to agree more with Democrats. As for gun bans? I think they are silly. People are going to find some way to get guns regardless if they really want one.

All I was trying to say is that I support the right to own guns, but I do think that there should be some restrictions,
 
well I am an independant. And I will not vote for the anti gunners or the other anti gunners. I am voting 3rd party. McCain already sold his sole. Remember the bailout?
 
I worry because the statists in both parties keep trying to expand the definition of what actually is a crime;and by default-their reach into your life.
Vash;a classical liberal would be a libertarian or a constituionalist/small gov't republican today.
Unfortunately; the Democrat party o ftoday has definitely been hijacked by the "progressive" wing;i.e the big gov't socialists. And they couldn't have done it without the "me too!"gutlees and nutless weasels that have sabotaged the republicans from within and without.
I can see( under an Obama administration) a time when we will have re-education camps for the "politically unreliable"...what say,Oleg;are we soon to be 'Zeks???
 
If we simply abolished the stupid, silly, or otherwise useless gun laws there would likely still be a whole stack of gun laws around. We don't need any more gun laws, we just need to get rid of the stupid, silly, and otherwise useless ones.

I wonder when the last time the OP filled out a 4473, then had to wait because the NCIS computer was down, or they'd mistaken him for someone else, or.... One of the great advantages of a concealed carry permit (if you can legally own a gun why should you need a permit to carry it concealed or not?) is that there's no waiting for a background check and no waiting period at all. In fact waiting periods are about as stupid as stupid can be. If someone's convinced that someone else needs to be dead, a few days or a week wouldn't be likely to change anyone's mind and/or they'd use something else to do the job. Meanwhile those that truly need a gun for defense are left hung out to dry. :cuss:
 
I think that if people would just stop being so scared about the issue, and would look more on a compromising view, then perhaps rational gun laws could be established. I mean, criminals are going to get guns even if they are illegal. So, whats the point of not having anyway to defend yourself? I, personally, just want to target shoot, and have little interest in hand-guns.

The problem is that mindset always leads to a system where most firearms are not owned by most of the population.

What is rational to you is not rational to the mother whos child was just gunned down by a criminal (whether thier child was a criminal themselves or not). Criminals will always be commiting crimes, so there will always be sob stories out there, and family of the victims that feel more restrictions are the solution.

You say you don't care about handguns. Yet if there was no handguns the criminals would just be cutting down rifles and shotguns they steal to use for concealed firearms in thier place. So more restrictions would be called on for them. They would have to be stored in ways that make them unuseful for self defense to reduce theft. They would have to be taken apart and have various locks.
Various types would slowly be banned, and more and more restrictions would be called for because crimes would continue to happen.
Everyone would be registered and they would continue to let gun owners have some less effective type of firearm as long as they turned in or gave up another. Others would be appeased by grandfathering.


Crimes would continue to happen. Years later when those continualy added policies have reduced the RKBA enough and the population growth has continued to add more new non gun owners, they will just outlaw most all together with only a minority of opposition. They can grandfather you one year, and ban what they grandfathered 10 years prior when you are no longer united with millions of others. It is just a means to an end.


There there is people and groups that do not believe any civilians should have firearms. They exploit individuals like you by creating "handgun control" groups, "Pro hunting" groups and laws, that promote 'reasonable restrictions' on all firearms. Many are actualy funded, if you follow the money, by individuals that support other fronts that oppose you.

Most governments do not want the average civilian to have firearms either. They make ruling more difficult and costly. If you try to implement policies resisted with firearms it is expensive. You want your police or military etc to be able to implement whatever policies you set without any trouble. Whether those are 'good' policies, or Nazi like policies. Our own nation for example rounded up most of the Japanese Americans during WW2 and put them into concentration camps. It would have been much more costly if they had been armed and resisted. Making implementation of that policy more difficult.


So there is many different segments that will never be happy with current legislation. There will always be crimes happening, especialy in our diverse society that can be highlighted and used to call for additional legislation.

People such as yourself that will allow the trampling of rights not important to themselves as long as you can get what you want will be exploited to reach a desired goal, and then turned on when your use has run out.
Many "Pro Hunting" false fronts exist that are funded by people opposed to all firearm ownership, but understand divide and conquer.
Others claim just to be after handguns, or the "assault weapon" term that grows to include whatever firearm is desired (the latest version included all firearms of military origin, or considered unsporting, which would have given the ATF the authority to decide whatever firearms were legal or illegal at any time, just like they currently can with firearms like shotguns over .50)
It can be expanded to include all semi autos, then sniper rifles (scoped rifle) and even most cartridges. Brazil for example basicly banned all rifle calibers, and all handguns ore powerful than .38 special so thier body armored storm troopers will never face legaly held firearms that pose a threat to thier body armor.

Mexico banned most firearms except .22s, shotguns, and a few weak handgun calibers even though thier constitution included the RKBA when it was made. And even those few legal calibers are only held by a couple thousand people out of a population of many millions.

Arms are power, and many do not want the average peasant having power. Others really believe things would be better if they were all outlawed. Many alliances are formed and cross funded by one or another if they are making progress in further eliminating firearm ownership.

The RKBA SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. What are reasonable infringements to you are not what are reasonable to your neighbor concerning your firearms.
What is reasonable to people now, is not what is reasonable 1 day after the VA Tech shooting.
You either do not allow infringement, or your rights will be taken away.
 
Would I be classified as a minor? I'm 20. I think I am intelligent enough to own a firearm.
 
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