Home invasion...by the police?

[CNYCacher]

Even if the police executed the warrant by knocking and acknowlegding themselves as police officers, the homeowner did not speak English and would not have understood.

But he wouldn't have started blasting the police in the middle of the conversation they were having on the front porch.

Do you think the difference between a traditional warrant search and a no-knock entry is whether you knock first before kicking in the door and swarming the house like a bunch of ninjas?

 

[Master Blaster]

He's Hmung, they fought a nasty guerilla was in SE asia a few years back.
Many of the Hmung were in the military, and were granted assylum in the US.

BTW Good shooting. Perhaps if this happened more often police would be a little more careful in verrifying they had good information and the right address. The words surveillance and verrification come to mind.

 

[Geno]

General said:

Is it wrong that the first thing I thought after reading the article was "he should have used a rifle"?

No offense to law enforcement officers, but it's only a matter of time before more perps start wearing body armour (makeshift or commercially available stuff) due to the rising use of deadly force in defense by homeowners.

The bad guys are wearing armor here in Michigan...several have, and are armed with automatic (not semi) AKs!!! Given that, time to upgrade from the 870 Tacti-Kool shotgun to the Barrett .50 BMG with APs? Even if it didn't penetrate the bad guy's plate armor, it would knock him /her back to the stone age. Okay, I had my chuckle...time to be more serious.

No knock warrants are stupid. Human life is worth more than the BS evidence that they allege to desire to preserve to prosecute some DA. Besides, if the DA BG is dead, what does the evidence mean in the first place?! See the problem with SWAT, and any other group that has toys, they have to justify their need or they don't get funded.

Mr. Gump was right. "Stupid is as stupid does", and in this case we saw some pretty serious stupid. What's next...send SWAT to bring truant children back to school?! Or, how about we send SWAT to disarm that 10-year-old girl in the Florida cafeteria. :banghead: I can just see it:

*SWAT Commander: "Protect the evidence at all cost"
*Scramble to positions, MP5, AR and the like trained on innocent 10-year-old girl
*Girl gingerly trims her meal, school-pizza...AKA leather-on-a-tray
*SWAT Commander orders: "Drop the weapon!"
*Girl looks to see who has weapon
SWAT Commander repeats: "Drop the weapon or we will open fire!"
*Girl looks again to see who has a weapon...being alone in the cafeteria, she drops the knife and complies.
SWAT Commander shouts: "Not the knife, the pizza....drop the pizza...NOW!!!"
*Master-blasters fire 50,000 rounds into 10-year-old child, but preserve the evidence...1 slice of 5-year-old, shoe-leather-like, greasy pizza (we all ate it) and one dull-from-use-on-school-pizza steak knife.
*SWAT Commander speaks victoriously to media:
"We received a call of a truant child. The truant child was absent from school, so we sought an alternate use of our newly deployed toys...weapons. We did manage to locate a felon, armed with a piece of school-issue-pizza, and yeah she also had a dull knife. Fearful for our lives, after all, we have all eaten that pizza, we fired 50,000 rounds of ammo into the child. We would have fired more but there was no target remaining into which we might fire, and frankly, that was all the ammo we possessed. Thank-you for funding our obsession, and thus enabling us to abuse children, the elderly and occasionally a home near you...coming to your door any day now."

 

[ceetee]

I still say that there is a distinct need for such a thing as a "no-knock" raid. It has it's place in the arsenal, and there are proper times to use it. We could all sit around pondering what those times are, but that's not the point of this thread. Was this case one of those times? Not having access to the warrant application and/or witness statements leading up to this incident, we just won't know. IMO, if they ever do make "no-knock" raids illegal, though, it'll just tie the hands of those good cops even more than they already are. Every toolbox needs more than one tool...

 

[stevemis]

However, while I'm still chuckling, I would note this: It wasn't that they mis-read the address, somebody gave them a bad address.

If nothing else, these wrong address "mistakes" will tip off the intended target of the no-knock.

 

[romma]

I am amazed they didn't carry this guy out in a body bag quite frankly...

Usually when cops get fired on that's how it ends.

 

[ZeSpectre]

You know, if they can spend all this time putting cases together, they can wait until the suspect leaves his/her home and steps out into public. I thought this when in LE and I think it double now!

 

[TexasRifleman]

the word "Police" is recognizable in several dozen languages.

Spanish = "Policía"
German ="Polizei"
Italian = "Polizia"
Portuguese = "Polícia"
Dutch = "Politie"

You have carefully chosen all of the languages that are derivative of Latin, the "Romance Languages" because of the influence of the Roman Empire.

That works for Europe for the most part but not anywhere in Asia or really anywhere the Roman Empire did not command.

 

[txgho1911]

So this house was not a part of this investigation. Guess it must be easy to include other addresses when they can get more dope and arrests.
So how does a dept grow the scope of operations? Is there a policy for this?
Yes no knock warrants need to be outlawed.

 

[Geno]

TexasRifleman:

If the person(s) are immigrants from Chile, they won't understand any of those:

paco = police
milico = military police



Doc2005

 

[Nightwing]

Ok... I have a buddy that worked the "Jump Van" for about a year and served warrants.
It's a slippery situation.
If you knock and WAIT for someone to answer the door, when serving a warrant, you run the risk of someone arming themselves before you enter. Most of the time when a forced entry is required, they're not serving warrants for "Failure to appear in court on the charge of fishing without a license". It's usually pretty bad guys. So.... It's hard to make a blanket ruling for all warrants. I mean.... how would you do that?
You know and wait.... you might get shot
You yell "Police! Search Warrant" and beat the door in, and there's no time to consider you might have made a mistake. You might kill someone, or get killed and it would all be unnecessary. So who knows. I sure don't

 

[Beatnik]

There has to be a way to keep the SWAT raid a tool in the toolbox of the Police, just one that has more controlled use and more PUBLIC accountability when things go wrong.

I still say that there is a distinct need for such a thing as a "no-knock" raid.

Ok, then, WHY?

I'm trying to think of a reason, and I keep coming up bust.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Exactly how many kilos need to be taken off the street to justify the state killing this many innocent people? And if you can, in fact, quantify that, please point to evidence that no-knock raids have a measurable benefit at all.

 

[RoadkingLarry]

Whats a few innocent lives so long as one gram of evidence is saved!

it is amazing that we are not rading about an innocent man killed in a no knock raid.
Outlaw no knocks or make a strong penalty for mistakes that result in an innocents home being invaded by those sworn to protect and serve.

 

[El Tejon]

So, what's the beef, chief? What was the warrant about? Any one know?

They came at 12:30am? Ummm, aren't people normally of interest to the Violent Crimes Task Force still up at 12:30 am and jacked up on something?

Who was the warrant for? And for what? What was the address? Why was it so all fire important to go kicking in doors when if it was an arrest warrant to take him down in the grocery store parking lot or in the waiting room of his probation officer?

Many questions. I hope we get answers instead of stonewalling.

 

[gym]

If he is a citizen and is still alive, he has a hell of a lawsuit, the kind that bankrupt local govts.I have no info so this is just a hypothetical.

 

[MiddleAgedKen]

Google "Cory Maye," or just go over to Radley Balko's site.

 

[Master Blaster]

Its simple guys SWAT is very expensive.
They really need the SWAT guys about one or two times a year in most juisdictions. (Hint heavily armed felons in a hostage or barricade situation)

It costs too much money to only use them once or twice, so just use them for everything, officer safety and all, who cares about the constitution or public safety anyway???

 

[takurpic]

What to do? I have several million idea$. Hit 'em in the wallet.

 

[Zundfolge]

That works for Europe for the most part but not anywhere in Asia or really anywhere the Roman Empire did not command.

Most of South East Asia was under European rule at one point ... I've known several Vietnamese that were semi fluent in French as well as Vietnamese.

Aside from that, American TV is ubiquitous around the world, I'm sure most people regardless of the language they speak can understand the word "Police", if nothing else from watching American cop shows.

CNYCatcher also makes an excellent point; But he wouldn't have started blasting the police in the middle of the conversation they were having on the front porch.

 

[Jeff White]

El Tejon said;

Who was the warrant for? And for what? What was the address?

Good questions. When someone comes up with a copy of the warrant and the affidavit that was used to secure it, PM me and I'll reopen this. There is no sense in discussing this any further until we have something to discuss.

If anyone wants to vent, use the search function and bring up anyone of the 100+ post threads we've had on this subject in the past and re-read them. No one here can say anything that hasn't already been said until we have some facts.

Jeff