May 1: Remember Communism today.

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Not all of socialism is bad. I'd like to see people who denounce socialism also denounce free public education.
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Free? My property taxes beg to differ. Not to mention I was brainwashed into typical liberal BS the whole time (I can recall being taught things like 'the constitution is a living document' and 'the new deal saved America').

Socialism is coming back in a slow fashion. Chui is quite right on that.
 
Let's see. I haven't been in public education since I graduated High School. At 35 years old, I haven't been able to have children yet.
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Let's clear up some of the problems from your public school education right now; you won't be able to have children, ever. Call it discriminatory if you want, but that's the way it is.

My wife is 30, and has no children.
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This is the part you'll be able to work on. I can recommend some online study materials if you have trouble figuring out the process.

:neener:
 
Free Public Education???

Wow, a truly marxist idea... If it is from the state, it must be free
Free Cheese!
Free education!
Free Willy!

You betcha, I will denounce publicly and right now, Socialism sucks. It blows chunks. It makes baby Jesus cry. It kills puppies and makes rainbows disappear.

Ditto with public education.

Now, I would support choice and competition at taxpayers expense. You take your kid and your ducats and take em to any school you like. You get X dollars and if it costs more at that school, you pop the tab yourself. You want to take your kid to a religious school, fine... a liberal, pot smoking hippie school, fine.. A business oriented, free market school, great!

There! A public declaration that both Socialism and "Free Education" is deep int he crapper.
 
Not all of socialism is bad. I'd like to see people who denounce socialism also denounce free public education.
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PUBLIC EDUCATION=GOVERMENT EDUCATION. :scrutiny:
 
Ok, well obviously ...when I said "free public education" I didn't literally mean "FREE public education". I was refering to state funded schools as opposed to tuition funded public schools. "The Wealth of Nations", an educated member of society is more productive than an uneducated member of society. There is very heavy emphasis on this phrase. Purely tuition funded public education did exist in the US. The system didn't work. Education should not be entirely traded as a commodity. So why offer public education? Good reason here: http://eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2/content_storage_01/0000000b/80/24/9d/ff.pdf
 
Quatin, if your grammar and reasoning are any indication of today's public education I'd say it's not working very well.

The document you referenced was authored and published by the National Education Association, a Political Action Committee which serves to ensure the further existence of...wait for it...public education.

Any chance they're not exactly objective in their representation of the wholesome goodness of public education?

Maybe later you can explain how education is "traded as a commodity" as I haven't seen it listed on any of the exchanges.
 
I Gotcher Publik Ejucation Rite Here . . .

Not all of socialism is bad. I'd like to see people who denounce socialism also denounce free public education.
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Wow.

Maybe if I get some free time later I'll excerpt some of the stuff I've written on socialism, institutional psych, and education.

I have up-close-and-personal experience with all three.

Public education sucks. It isn't free, it isn't public, and it doesn't educate.

I'd say that's a denunciation.

Or would you rather I tell you how I really feel?
 
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LOL, 'round here at the University of Akron (where I go to school) May Day is defined as the first weekend after finals, and is a complete Exercise in Anarchy. :D :D :D

I've already spotted a few riot police about, planning. Also, beer hasn't been available in quantity the last few weeks. :)
 
Name some good things that government education has done for us, Quatin.

I can't think of any.

The only reason I am doing as well in college as I am now is that I had teachers who were rebels and decided to actually teach us and not force that communistic bullhockey down our throats. I didn't learn to write well in English class, as I was supposed to. I learned to write properly in History class. Instead of learning what I was supposed to in English, my history teacher had to teach us to write papers.

It also helped that I read a lot of history books on wars and such, which reinforced my grammar, and educated me in history at the same time. While my classmates were still reading those dinky little kid's books, I was reading big thick books on WWII and Vietnam. While everybody else was reading thin little novels to barely meet English requirements, I was reading books like Tom Clancy's novels at a rapid pace, often times completing a novel in two days easily. I can't tell you what a participle or modifier or whatever if it hit me in the face, but I know if a sentence is correct by the way it sounds in my head when reading it.
 
*sigh all this communist hating makes me sad, :(. It is capitalism that is morally wrong.
 
freakazoid, from my studies Communism (actually World Socialism via dictatorship) was evil from the beginning. A book well worth the pages for far more information than I ever wished to know about Socialism is titled World Revolution by Nesta Webster.

The US grew rapidly due tothe economic system called the "American System" not "Capitalism". This is the economic system that Lincoln was nurturing via Henry Carey.

What we call "Capitalism" is very corrupt as it supports transnational monopolies, "free trade", regionalism and, ultimately, World Socialism via Fabianism (i.e., one step forward, two steps backwards).

So while you do recognize that "Capitalism" is morally bankrupt it's "opposame" is truly worse. It's another case of "Managed Competition" - in this case Hegelian Principle.

We have to THINK for ourselves and not let others manage the "debate" by constraining the boundaries of ideas. You see, it matters not your answer when I control the questions...
 
I'm not overly educated in philosophy.

I'll make no pretenses of being on par with someone like Chui who has a grasp of the names and individual writings of philosophers and economists, but I'll agree with him based on my own experience.

I've been to twenty six countries and seen many people and cultures. Every culture that rewards individualism and personal motivation tends to have a better standard of living and more stable society than one that is based on handouts garnered by mere citizenship (subservience?). Motivation and ingenuity are supressed when one realizes that you gain no benefit from your work, but your lazy and stupid neighbor will profit from it.

If I have a skill and trade, making 100 whatever monetary units per week, while you have a better position and skill making 200, I will strive to improve myself or my ability to reach a better standard. If, however, the state pools our income, giving us both 150 per week, I have no motivation to improve. You are affected also, you are being robbed of your income, it is being given to me, your less skilled neighbor, and you have no desire to improve your position because it is impossible to do so.

I realize this is a gross over-simplification, but the principle holds true in the macro, also. These attitudes affect society as a whole, not just economics. One of the major effects is dependance on the state, ultimately resulting in disarmament and subjugation.
 
ON MAY 1st

When I was under 10 years old, and living, let's just say, behind the iron curtin, we had to march the streets, hold signs praising the advantages of socialist economy vs enslaving capitalism, swear my support to the commie party (yes, as a kid), etc, etc, etc... oh, did i mention the propaganda in "free public" schools about how "american spy planes are dropping bugs on our corn/potato fields to starve us and ruin our food supply" ???

TO that guy in earlier post who said some socialism is good etc etc:

YOU HAVE NOT FRIGGIN IDEA WHAT THE HE** YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT !!!

EDIT TO ADD: you should call them not "free public schools" but rather "no-choice government re-education camps for youth". and no, the whole holding of signs and marching was not voulentary... unless that is, you wanted your parents to explain why their child is being an unproductive "element" of the socialist machine !!!

THANK GOD I'M IN AMERICA!!!
 
Socialism

I think every American should take a trip to a formerly socialist country, and take a good look at the fruit that that tree bears. I travel every year to a former USSR republic, and have seen first-hand the legacy of socialism. Delapidated buildings, pot hole filled streets, rampant corruption, and a government health care system that no one in their right mind uses. Hey, but just as they promised, everbody is equal; poor, that is. When you get back home to the USA, you have a MUCH better sense of appreciation for the economic model and system of government we have here.

Don
 
KD5NRH,

Let's clear up some of the problems from your public school education right now; you won't be able to have children, ever. Call it discriminatory if you want, but that's the way it is.
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OK darnit... you slipped that one in on me. You got me with one of my own personal pet peeves-- so that one hurt.

I may not be too politically correct, but it has always bugged me with guys say "We're pregnant." I don't know... it just grates on me. I just want to scream "No... SHE'S pregnant-- and you may or may not have helped! :)



I can recommend some online study materials if you have trouble figuring out the process.
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Somehow, I bet you could :) Everytime I start brushing up on my education, Jenn smacks me in the back of the head. You'd think she would be happy seeing me trying to better myself....

Go figure....


:)


-- John
 
Great, the internet grammar police has arrived. Let's denounce all literature, because there's no unbiased source.

Some of you expect too much of "free public education". It's not meant to elevate you above your peers. It's meant to elevate the education of the society as a whole compared to the global community. Just because you don't need "free public education" doesn't mean it won't benefit you. From "The Wealth of Nations" an educated citizen is more beneficial to a SOCIETY than an uneducated citizen. If you seek elevation of economical/social status (individual) through it then you will be disappointed.
Has anyone read "The Grapes of Wrath"? Socialism built worker unions, quality control regulations and anti-monopoly laws. The whole "laissez-fair" concept that bad businesses weed themselves out didn't happen.
 
worker unions
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Workers unions are why you can't hardly find anything made in the USA anymore

quality control regulations
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You mean the qc that goes down to meet a price point?

Socialism built worker unions, quality control regulations and anti-monopoly laws
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And socialism gave us Hitler and Stalin. And reduced the Britain to the pathetic country it is today.

Socialism has screwed this country up. Welfare comes out of socialism. Look at how the "New Deal" ended up. The New Deal didn't save this country (WWII did, because it restarted the industries, etc). Johnson's Great Society is also socialism. Look at how it got us where we are today. There is a whole group of people that sit on their butts all day and take gov't welfare checks and do not contribute one bit to society.
 
Out sourcing is why you can't find anything in the USA anymore. You can't blame unions for resisting $2 an hour wages that companies pay for foreign production.

Quality control as in the FDA. Ever read "Fast Food Nation"?

Welfare (as in support for the poor) is something like 2% of the budget. Social security and medicare/medicaid for the elderly eats up some 50%(roughly). People who retire can't afford to pay their bills. That is indicative of a more serious problem than the concept of welfare.
 
quatin wrote:
Let's denounce all literature, because there's no unbiased source.
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That's a bit extreme, don't you think? Certainly not what I proposed.

To clarify my point about your reference, I asserted that it is unrealistic to expect the NEA to publish an objective and unbiased report on the government education system.

Thus, referencing an NEA document as a guage on the quality of the government education reflects poor reasoning on your part.

quatin wrote:
Social security and medicare/medicaid for the elderly eats up some 50%(roughly). People who retire can't afford to pay their bills. That is indicative of a more serious problem than the concept of welfare.
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Having been relieved of portions of their earnings for Social Security and medicare over the span of their working lives, it's surprising to you that the elderly expect to get that money back?

I'd be perfectly happy funding 100% of my own retirement expenses if the fed gov't would stop taking my $$ for these wasteful programs.

Things in the US will get really interesting if the author of "The Coming Generational Storm" is accurate...and SS/Medicare jump past ~75% of the fed budget as the full mass of the Baby Boomers become eligible for these programs.
 
Yeah, the USDA recently admitted to rarely performing their inspections. And judging from all the recent food recalls, quality control through govt. has not worked.

And, the FDA is trying to spread more govt. control, over herbs and vitamins. The USDA is trying for NAIS to gain absolute control over people's food. I don't like any of it.

All the taxes and regulations make things too expensive now for people, combined with fiat currency that constantly looses its value making true savings impossible to do now like in the past. Yeah, thank you FDR and LBJ for destroying our money.
 
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