Officer attempts to intimidate Open Carry owner and fails

[coloradokevin]

How did I act like an idiot?

Oh, sorry... I didn't read closely enough to realize that you were on here! Others have touched on this already, but here ya go:

1) You approached this officer in a manner which I believe clearly suggests that you were looking for an argument.

2) You were videotaping the officer from the instant you approached him. While this is legally permissible, it does suggest to me that you were looking to stir the pot. I've never once had someone approach me with a video camera on the street who wasn't looking to bait me into a fight... I think you followed this same trend.

3) You were initially advised that you were trespassing, and if you were in fact trespassing, then the officer had every legal right to request your name/identification. No, you aren't required to carry an ID with you when you aren't driving, but you are required to provide identifying information upon request when the officer believes you have broken the law.

4) You followed the officer as he started walking away, repeatedly asking him if you were being detained. He was leaving, so I think you could have just assumed that you were no longer being detained. You were looking for a controversy, and you found one.

5) You approached an officer with a video camera pointed at him, and a gun on your hip. While this is perfectly legal, I think any officer would be a fool if he didn't turn some attention your way.

6) You were standing outside of an abortion clinic where you had no business to conduct, and were wearing a gun. Although your video doesn't show it clearly, I assume you were part of a small protest? Common sense might suggest why this would raise an eye brow or two, given the number of abortion clinics that have been shot up or bombed by protestors.


Don't get me wrong, there were more than a couple of ways that the officer didn't react appropriately, but I believe that your entire goal was to bait him into the argument that you got. Thus, I feel that you were both in the wrong.


Here are some things I think the officer did wrong:

1) Not acting decisively if you were trespassing. For that matter, were you trespassing? The officer never really followed through on this issue...

2) Demanding a permit for something that clearly doesn't require a permit (at least in this state).

3) Grabbing his gun if you weren't grabbing your gun, or otherwise acting like you might attack the officer. It is hard to see it from the officer's view without a camera pointing in the other direction, but I did get the impression that he went from 0-100 in about half a second. While I do think you were looking for an argument, I don't think you were looking for a gun fight. It seems like the officer was a bit high strung on this one.

4) Not being able to clearly articulate why he was requesting your identification, or contacting you. If I ask for your ID on the street, I will have a valid reason to do so. If you don't provide that ID upon request, you get to go with me. If this officer had a valid reason to request your ID, it should be articulable. Granted, he doesn't need to initially tell you why he's requesting it, but he could detain you if you refuse to comply with his order. The fact that he ultimately didn't detain you shows me that he was fairly unsure of his position.

 

[texas bulldog]

JP,

i too am interested in your answer to what you would have done differently, if anything. i think it's good to try to answer that for yourself after a situation that goes awry, even if you were in the right. it's what helps us learn and grow. so...anything?


also...

Just standing around outside an abortion clinic with a gun... what could possibly go wrong?

regardless of who's right or wrong, that's as true as it is (darkly) humorous...

 

[BigMustard]

The most striking part to me in the video was when the man videotaping the situation asks politely "May I have your name please?" and the Officer responds withs a stern "NO" and drives off. Once again another LEO thinks he is above the law. He asks the videotaper several times to see his ID and the cop wouldn't even provide him with his name. How classy.

 

[ChaoSS]

And that cop wasn't High Road, either. He personifies who should NOT have a badge or gun. For those of you that have never had dealings with bigoted, racist. redneck southern cops, I don't expect you to understand their nightstick mentality.

No, the cop wasn't high road. But your kind of bigotry, assigning his incompetence to all police officers of his socioethnic background, is little different than if someone came in here and said "good for the cop, jamal probably shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun anyway."

That kind of bigotry can find a home elsewhere.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The most striking part to me in the video was when the man videotaping the situation asks politely "May I have your name please?" and the Officer responds withs a stern "NO" and drives off. Once again another LEO thinks he is above the law. He asks the videotaper several times to see his ID and the cop wouldn't even provide him with his name. How classy

are we watching the same video? i thought the officer told him his name from the car...did i mis-hear

 

[BigMustard]

Maybe I misheard? My audio isn't very good. I thought I heard him say "no" and shut the door and drive off.

 

[Kindrox]

jp49911 did GREAT. It is people like him that force the powers that be to be honest. There is a good chance that in the next encounter of this nature, that police officer will be dialed down a bit.

Citizans don't have to get on their knees and beg. If JP did something wrong, ok, go get him. But it does not mean squat if an officer just does not LIKE something.

Open carry has been discouraged for many years but heavy handed tatics like this officer obviously wanted to give. Without a camera and the internet, JP would likely have been detained and worse.

 

[Justin]

I think that this discussion has run its course.

Also, some of you really, really need to dial back the paranoia-meter on your tinfoil hats with regard to cops.