Semi Auto, or Box Mags....

[WrongHanded]

This is just a hypothetical so let's not get too upset about it. But please do read the whole post before answering.

If it, for whatever politic reasons, came to a choice between buying a semi auto rifle with a limited capacity internal magazine (enbloc ala the Garand, SKS style, or tube magazine), OR any other action type with detachable magazines (bolt, pump, lever), which would you prefer?

And for the sake of the question, let's say capacity was limited to 10 rounds (because the liberals seem to like that number).

Please do not infer from this question that I'm suggesting anything of this nature should be a legal reality. I'm more looking at if from the perspective of tactical application. If you'd care to share why you'd choose one over the other, please do so.

 

[Varminterror]

Semiauto. It’s a lot easier to convert an internal magazine to a DBM than to convert a manual action to a semi-auto.

 

[Thomasss]

.22LR are a lot of fun as an auto., but for serious big game hunting I've always preferred a bolt action.

 

[jmr40]

If a detachable mag semi-auto isn't an option and a bolt action with a detachable mag is an option, I'd choose the bolt gun over a lever or pump action. A version of the Scout rifle. I wouldn't want to have a strict copy of the Cooper version, but with modifications to the design. I have no use for a forward mounted scope. I'd want a low powered optic mounted traditionally.

At least with the options currently in production. If someone made a modern semi-auto that could be loaded with stripper clips then I might change my mind.

 

[LoonWulf]

Semi....only centerfire semi i own right now is a Hi-point 9mm.

 

[WrongHanded]

For what we could term practical defensive applications, I'd prefer something like an SKS style or Mini-Garand type of semi-auto rifle.

Actually, with the right design, I'd assume something such as a Mini-Garand would be legal in many States with "assault weapon" bans. I did ask Ruger to make one in .223, but wouldn't you know it, they didn't listen to me.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

For what we could term practical defensive applications, I'd prefer something like an SKS style or Mini-Garand type of semi-auto rifle.

Actually, with the right design, I'd assume something such as a Mini-Garand would be legal in many States with "assault weapon" bans. I did ask Ruger to make one in .223, but wouldn't you know it, they didn't listen to me.

You'd think a fixed 10 round magazine Mini would be an easy adaption. For kicks they could give it a stripper clip guide...

 

[21H40]

I would enjoy a scaled down SKS in something like 5.7x28mm. Could probably lighten it up with aluminum and plastic, too.

 

[WrongHanded]

You'd think a fixed 10 round magazine Mini would be an easy adaption. For kicks they could give it a stripper clip guide...

Yeah, it should be fairly easy. Add a slightly wider and deeper stock, and I feel they could squeeze 10 rounds in there. I was actually hoping they'd just do enbloc clips rather than stripper clips. They could sell them in packs of 5 or 10 and still make good money doing it. Take off the heat shielding above the barrel for "compliance", and add a short rail over the front of the receiver for an RDS, with an option to bolt on another chunk of rail to the forward stock to mount (for example) a scout scope, if desired.

 

[EIB0879]

Another vote for a semi-auto. I only use ten round magazines when I hunt with my PA-10 anyway.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Yeah, it should be fairly easy. Add a slightly wider and deeper stock, and I feel they could squeeze 10 rounds in there. I was actually hoping they'd just do enbloc clips rather than stripper clips. They could sell them in packs of 5 or 10 and still make good money doing it. Take off the heat shielding above the barrel for "compliance", and add a short rail over the front of the receiver for an RDS, with an option to bolt on another chunk of rail to the forward stock to mount (for example) a scout scope, if desired.

The magazine wouldn't have to be concealed within the stock, just permanently fixed in place. The lawyers would probably force them to hinge it as well, for fast unloading.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Depends, short range I would prefer a semi-auto, if I were assuming a sniper type situation I would go with a bolt action. Thankfully I don't have to make that decision as I have plenty of both.

 

[Atavar]

You are sort of asking which is better, an apple or a potato.
Those are completely different things with different uses.

 

[WrongHanded]

You are sort of asking which is better, an apple or a potato.
Those are completely different things with different uses.

Yes, you're right. And also, no, you're not.

Before semi-autos, bolt and lever actions were used in various combat and defensive roles. Now the semi-auto rules. But if that semi-auto was required to have a fixed magazine, would it be in any way beneficial to revert to a more "primitive" action design for the additional speed of reloading via a detachable box magazine?

Some might claim no, if the semi-auto was designed in such a way as to be reloaded quickly. Others would far prefer a slower rate of fire, with less time between reloads. For example: would a box fed 10rd lever action really be that much slower than a fixed mag 10rd semi-auto over the course of 20 rounds shooting at 100 yards?

It's an interesting thought exercise to me. The devil appears to be in the details.

 

[WisBorn]

I don't know if I should have even voted.
My favorite rifle design is a bolt action with a internal box magazine with a drop floor plate.
I voted for the box magazine. I guess I would rather own a bolt than a semiautomatic. Personal preference....

 

[chicharrones]

For defense, an autoloader all day long. I can shoot an autoloader more effectively left or right handed than I can a manually operated rifle.

For personal reference, I've practiced this with snap caps in my home with my Beretta CX4 and Marlin 1894 CSBL (both w/ 16" barrels). The Beretta is simply easier to use weak side and strong side than the lever gun, and I'm not going to accidentally short stroke the action on the Beretta if I'm in a weird shooting position.

BTW, I don't recall us getting stuck with only internal box magazine autoloaders in the 1994 AWB. Even though Garands and SKS rifles were much cheaper and seemingly more plentiful at the time. There were plenty of M1 Carbines, the Marlin Camp Carbine, and so on back in those days.

Due to that, I can't see a design roll back like internal box magazine autoloaders unless the detachable mag autoloaders are banned outright, no matter the capacity.

 

[chicharrones]

For example: would a box fed 10rd lever action really be that much slower than a fixed mag 10rd semi-auto over the course of 20 rounds shooting at 100 yards?

You can simulate that at the range with a lever gun and autoloader of your choice. Hopefully with similar performing cartridges for recoil recovery reasons.

First, you have to pick your intended target size (I'll assume "defense" sized). Second, load the autoloader and lever gun to the same capacity. Third, shoot from a variety of positions.

About the only way I can get close to the speed of an autoloader with a lever gun is when I'm standing on my hind legs.

 

[WrongHanded]

You can simulate that at the range with a lever gun and autoloader of your choice. Hopefully with similar performing cartridges for recoil recovery reasons.

First, you have to pick your intended target size (I'll assume "defense" sized). Second, load the autoloader and lever gun to the same capacity. Third, shoot from a variety of positions.

About the only way I can get close to the speed of an autoloader with a lever gun is when I'm standing on my hind legs.

But you missed the part with the reload. 20 rounds, in guns that only hold 10 rounds.

 

[chicharrones]

But you missed the part with the reload. 20 rounds, in guns that only hold 10 rounds.

Didn't think it needed mentioning as 20 rounds divided by actual magazine capacity could be used for the simulation.

But I get you, I suppose the mag reload portion can't be counted so easily in currently made guns, so that would be a wash.

 

[Charlie98]

I am the weapon.

Deliberate shots with a quickly reloadable weapon vs 5 or 10 rounds only reloadable through a locked-back action? I'd take the box mag lever, etc.

 

[WrongHanded]

Didn't think it needed mentioning as 20 rounds divided by actual magazine capacity could be used for the simulation.

But I get you, I suppose the mag reload portion can't be counted so easily in currently made guns, so that would be a wash.

Or maybe it wouldn't be a wash, depending on the guns. And that's part of the consideration. A (hypothetical) 10 round enbloc clip would be quite fast. Two 5 rounds stripper clips? That would be slower.

 

[chicharrones]

Or maybe it wouldn't be a wash, depending on the guns. And that's part of the consideration. A (hypothetical) 10 round enbloc clip would be quite fast. Two 5 rounds stripper clips? That would be slower.

Makes me think of my SKS with 10 round stripper clips.

 

[ECVMatt]

I have always dreamed of a Mini14 that would run off of a 10 round enbloc.

I am not sure why, but it seems like a neat idea.

 

[Beck]

If, and that's a big IF I were limited to one of the options above I'd choose the first option. Give me a decent SKS (preferably a Yugo) with an ammo box full of loaded stripper clips and I'll be just fine. Since 7.62x39 is the only caliber I handload for, my handloads would give any 7.62x39 rifle capabilities far beyond its intended purpose.

A guy could also have a Ruger Mini-30 converted to a permanent fixed 10-Rnd magazine and buy a stripper clip guide from Cogburn Arsenal.

https://cogburnarsenal.com/product/mini-30-clip-guide-582/

 

[Pat Riot]

Having lived in California and being legally limited to 10 round magazines this subject has come up a few times in my life. I’ve owned a couple of SKS’s and for a short time an AR-15 with a fixed magazine. I have an M1 Garand as well.
I also own a couple of lever action .357 rifles that hold 10 rounds in the tube mag. I also have a couple of 30-30s that hold 5 rounds. I have never owned a lever, bolt or pump gun that takes box or stick magazines.
But for fast reloads and with practice a fixed mag with stripper clips can be reloaded pretty darn fast. Not as fast as swapping a box mag, but it would depend on the gun’s configuration and one would have to practice reloading in various shooting positions.
Standing and shooting offhand an SKS is a breeze to reload with stripper clips. Get into a prone or sitting position and reloading can be a bit awkward or cumbersome. This is where a box mag would shine. A tube fed lever gun is slow to reload regardless of shooting position though I think a Henry with the option of a side gate and the tube loading would be better than a Marlin or Winchester in comparison.

Edit: I decided to vote for the box magazine loaded option in the poll.