Brick said;
See!
Told yall they're underrated.
That's why most military units and police departments who previously used submachine guns have abandoned them in favor of 5.56mm carbines. They just didn't have you to advise them before they made the switch. They made their decison based on actual combat experience..everyone knows that doesn't mean mush when it interferes with an American gunowner's preconcieved notion of what works. :banghead:
We all know that SMGs are much more easily suppressed than an assualt rifle, right kids?
Pistols (and submachine guns, because by definition they shoot pistol ammunition) are easier to suppress because of the smaller volume of gas and because many pistol rounds are subsonic. Once again, you give up terminal effects for quieter operation. Isn't the object of shooting someone to incapacitate them as quickly as possible? Aren't you making a trade off when you suppress an already somewhat ineffective round? Rifles have much better terminal effects then pistols...That is a fact.
No use for your little M4 with the big crowd-impressor flash and bang. Not very good, eh?
Have you ever fired an M4? Or is all your your experience with this type of weapon's signature the Hollywood variety with the kewl looking muzzle flash separated by the tines of the flash suppressor? The standard issue birdcage type flash suppressor is quite effective, the aftermarket Phantom is better and the Smith Enterprises Vortex the best. None of these will make a 10" barrel comfortable to shoot though, because of the blast of gas. Enter the Noveske flashiders:
http://www.jnrifleworks.com/cgi-bin/cart2/display.cgi?cat1=17
The idea was taken from the Krinkov type flashiders that were developed for the short AKs (yes, even the Soviets, who fielded more submachine guns then any other army, moved to a short barrel assault rifle). These devices do work. I have fired an M4 equipped with one and had a couple on the line with me at Pat Rogers carbine course last July.
While suppressing a rifle is harder then suppressing a pistol or submachine gun,it's far from impossible. SureFire and Gemtech both make excellent suppressors for 5.56mm weapons.
http://www.surefiresuppressors.com/
http://www.gem-tech.com/m4-96d.html
They not only work very well, but they are in use now. Now we have a package as compact as an MP5SD3
with the much superior terminal effects of 5.56x45 in a package that is more ergonomic then the MP5 but just as comfortable to shoot.
And I missed another thing: How many magazines of SMG ammo can you carry for one standard assualt rifle magazine? My guess is 3. So you can 30 rounds of, let's say, .308. Well, let's throw the swing your way a little; 5.56x45. While you carry 30 of those, I can carry 90 of mine.
You're telling me that you can carry 90 magazines of 9mm or .45?
Man how much do you bench?
Have you checked the scale lately? Both 9mm and .45 ammunition weigh more per round then 5.56mm. Most submachine guns use a steel magazine where the M4, G36 etc. all use aluminum or plastic. Round per round 5.56mm weighs less.
Remember, the Army did some homework and found most engagments were under 200 yards. Right? When you're running around, how are you going to see a 1 MOA figure across the field anyway?
Most small arms engagements are
100 meters and under. But what does that have to do with this debate?
SMG maggies are smaller and lighter, so you can carry more of them than an assualt rifle.
See above, pistol caliber ammo and submachine gun magazines are in fact heavier then 5.56 mm ammo and assault rifle magazines. I don't have a postal scale here, but if you want tomorrow I will weigh a loaded Uzi magazine and a loaded USGI M16/M4 magazine and prove it.
Besides, what difference is a rifle going to make in a half-gutted, half-collapsed building? You might have to carry your rifle hip style, but the SMG might be small enough to work your shoulder a little.
You're going to carry whatever weapon you have, be it submachine gun, rifle or shotgun at either low ready or indoor ready. Have you ever done any CQB work, even in training?
The submachine gun was just what was needed in it's day. Most rifles in military or police service were bolt action and the semi-autos, M1, GEWHER 43 etc. were long, heavy and didn't adapt well to being cut down to a handy enough size for close quarters operations. But that day passed. In fact it passed a very long time ago, sometime in late 1943.
Jeff
