Subway Searches Go on Quietly, Just How Police Like Them

[nobody_special]

How did this escape my notice? In NYC, police are still randomly searching the bags and backpacks of subway passengers. And this withstood a court challenge.

Two years ago, after bombings and bombing attempts in London’s transit system, the New York City Police Department began randomly inspecting the backpacks and packages of subway riders every day. The measure was front-page news.

Today, a week after another series of terrorism scares in the United Kingdom, the New York security program remains in effect — at exactly the same level as when it was introduced, police officials said.

[...]

This is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment... but apparently in New York, they've re-written it to read:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated... unless it is in the public interest.
​

This reminds me of the Chinese constitution, a document which purports to grant rights to the people but then withholds or denies those rights if they run counter to the "interests of the state, of society or of the collective." Of course, one doesn't actually need legally protected rights unless they are counter to the interests of the state or society!

 

[MD_Willington]

Canadian Charter of Rights does the same thing... You have the right to*...

* Please see fine print...

 

[damien]

Smartcarry!

 

[obxned]

Well, when the 2nd Amendment is ignored in NYC, why would we expect the other rights to be respected?

 

[Loucks]

It's not just in New York. They've also instituted random searches of vehicles on the streets near a number of airports nationwide.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I used to enjoy visiting New York.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

anyone

actually in/from new york wanna weigh in? be particularly nice to hear from some one been there and been searched as opposed to folks from 1000 miles away.

 

[pacodelahoya]

I wonder if there are any members from NYC?

 

[GTSteve03]

Public transportation = criminal protection zone (in most cases)

Here in GA, you aren't allowed to ride MARTA (our crappy bus/rail system) with a concealed weapon even if you have a permit. It's that "We're the Government and we're here to protect you" mentality that goes along with just about any state-funded project that leads to all these rights violations. And just think, they're using your hard-earned taxpayer dollars to fund it! :banghead:

 

[Irwin]

Well I don't live in NYC but i am staying in it at this point in time, Ive traveled on the subway a few times in the last week to Manhattan and up to 86th street in Brooklyn. I have not seen any police officers except ones on the street and i ain't seen any of them preforming bag searches, but maybe that was because I didn't travel in rush hour except when i came back the first time from Manhattan. Irwin

 

[HankB]

My Dad grew up with a buddy who was immune to poison ivy. He had fun with this in high school, but reserved it for special occasions. (Note that even something like a handshake can transfer the allergens - is that the right word? - from poison ivy.)

Seems like someone could have some fun with an ability like this if they knew they were going to be searched . . .

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

Canadian Charter of Rights does the same thing... You have the right to*...

Oh yeah its sad to see our near-twin country Canada has a bogus 'rights' charter. Canada has also has hate speech laws, which seems to be used more as enforced political correctness.

Any country that has enforced anti-speech laws (hate speech, holocaust denial) is about 10 pegs below the United States. This of course includes 1/2 of western Europe.

 

[Lucky]

To be fair you can say or feel whatever you like, it's just broadcasting or proselytizing that's restricted. Because there were honest-to-God Nazis teaching college classes and doing that:banghead:

Funny case had an Indian, like the native type, who received the 'Order of Canada' for something, who somehow held Nazi views And was recorded conversing with a reporter. He didn't commit any crime because he said he didn't know it was going to be distributed. The rest is sort of common sense, like if a mob boss tells a thug to go beat a shop owner up, that's not protected speech. Likewise advocating or inciting people to do harm to others isn't protected.

But yea they lean heavily on the 'don't discriminate' line, while their own job applications say "white men not being hired".


Anyway, it'd be interesting to dig up those old Subway Search threads and find the pro-police-state posters who told us it would be temporary, and rub their noses in it. You know they're still active here and doing the same thing.

 

[SomeKid]

Lucky,

So, in other words, it is legal to be a Nazi, but you can't tell anyone.

Dunno about you Canucks, but I would rather know who was a Nazi.

 

[.cheese.]

Smartcarry!

to my understanding in NYC it's NoCarry!

 

[Caimlas]

Well, that's the thing about the 4th Amendment: it uses the word 'unreasonable'. That word pretty much opens the amendment up to interpretation, and not being a lawyer or all that well versed in the nuance of the amendment like I am the 1st and 2nd, that sure seems to give the weasely types who don't know how to reason grounds to abridge the right. If you can't tell a bag of peanuts from a bag of dates or pistachios, or are not allowed to, it seems 'reasonable' to search everyone randomly...

 

[nobody_special]

Well, Caimlas, is it reasonable to search someone for no reason except that there is a possibility that someone might commit a terrorist act?

I mean, seriously... with that reasoning, you can kiss all your rights goodbye.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

To be fair you can say or feel whatever you like, it's just broadcasting or proselytizing that's restricted. Because there were honest-to-God Nazis teaching college classes and doing that

Funny case had an Indian, like the native type, who received the 'Order of Canada' for something, who somehow held Nazi views And was recorded conversing with a reporter. He didn't commit any crime because he said he didn't know it was going to be distributed. The rest is sort of common sense, like if a mob boss tells a thug to go beat a shop owner up, that's not protected speech. Likewise advocating or inciting people to do harm to others isn't protected.

Here the threshold is quite higher, as now a threat has to be 'imminant'. In Canada from what I have seen, you can be prosecuted for saying "I hate blacks" or "all gays should go to hell" in public, even though no violence is advocated. I would fight for Nazis, Communists, or anyone else's freedom of speech. Maybe one day it will be a crime to 'downplay' or 'minimize' Canadian 'crimes' against the natives.

When you boil it down it is still just enforced political correctness - and it reminds me of why I will always view Canada as second best when compared to the US (not Canadian bashing, but hate speech laws strike me as plain undemocratic)

I think Americans have an unusually high standard compared to even most western nations when it comes to freedom of speech. Countries like Holland you can walk outside naked, but wear a National Socialist armband on your sleeve and youll do hard time.

On the other hand, when it related to subway searches, I think Europeon counties so heavily favor the accused it seems harder to put people away.

 

[pacodelahoya]

[

Cassandrasdaddy wrote,
QUOTE]anyone

-----------------------------------------------------

actually in/from new york wanna weigh in? be particularly nice to hear from some one been there and been searched as opposed to folks from 1000 miles away.[/QUOTE]

Well, I asked if there were anymembers from NYC over in generatl gun discussions, nothin but crickets.....

If it is all right with you, can we continue the discussion??

(Wonder why there are no members from NYC? Wouldn't be an oppressive government would it?)

 

[hnk45acp]

I'm from NYC and although I've brought my guns to/from the range via the subway I've never been searched. It's a joke anyway. There are often many entrances to each station and the police are usually camped out at only one spot so you can easily avoid them. The way the city justifies these searches are: You do NOT have to submit for a search if you so choose. You just wont be allowed on the train. So anyone who has bad intentions could just walk to the next stop or entrance and get on from there. It's just another feel good, false sense of security BS to keep the sheeple warm at night

 

[Titan6]

Is the NYC subway private or public property?

 

[fast200]

Well, as libertarian as I am, I don't see a problem because its PUBLIC mass transit. If you don't like the searches then drive. I don't particularly LIKE it, but I don't think its "unreasonable" search to check bags at subways if thats the terrorist MO.

 

[pacodelahoya]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Well, as libertarian as I am, I don't see a problem

Apparently, you are not very libertarian and there is a problem, it's called violating Constitutional rights.

The terrorists have already won and I'm voting for Hilary too. No sense in putting things off, and I'm not getting any younger.

 

[benEzra]

Well, as libertarian as I am, I don't see a problem because its PUBLIC mass transit. If you don't like the searches then drive.

You mean, drive on the PUBLIC roads? Oh, wait...

Guess you'll have to walk on the PUBLIC sidewalks then...

I sense a problem here. Unless you have the ability to fly, you can't get from point A to point B without traveling on public property. Meaning, if the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to public property, it doesn't apply once you leave your yard.

 

[Limeyfellow]

Most of these search things are a bunch of bs. The worse of the bunch must be the TSA and immigrations officials. They make the people in New York doing the subway searches seem liberterian.

Though it does give me something else to avoid, but I never been searched more before than 8 times (one of which was stripped) in one hour at Atlanta airport, then the interviews, being called a criminal for entering the US three times in a year, being called a scumbag who no better than Osama bin Laden, taped interviewed and followed around by armed guards so obvious that they got cross when you waved at them was by far the worse bs I been through. Luckly they had no real reason to stop me in the end. I am also glad it didn't involve a cavity search.